5 X PCN from ParkingEye

White_Van

I have recently been informed by my elderly mother that I have received 3 PCN's for overstaying the 90 minute time limit at the car park of one branch of a chain store operating in Somerset.
They were sent to the address on record for me at the DVLA though I have been on the road and not visited this address for some time.
I have been provided with minimal information by my elderly mother who is present at the address: dates and times of the overstay and the reference number needed to appeal or pay the charge. My mother is mentally ill and not willing to forward the letters or give any other information.
I found out about these letters the day before the deadline for reduced payment on the first event.
I have appealed the first PCN which occurred on a Sunday when the store was closed but the car park gates left open. On this occasion I overstayed by approximately 90 minutes.
The payments requested are £70 for each, reduced to £40 if paid by a certain date.
I overstayed in the same car park a further 2 times over the following 10 days for 40 minutes and 90 minutes.
The company controlling the car park is Parking Eye and they have photos of me in my van entering and leaving with time recorded.
I have used this car park many times in recent years as a customer and have previously overstayed on many occasions. It is only recently they hav started strictly enforcing the time limit. This seems like a form of entrapment.
Having read the information on this site it seems my best line of defence is that the charges are unreasonable but I seek advise on how best to word the further appeals to Parking Eye and the second appeal for the first PCN. Since writing this I have received another PCN for overstaying at ASDA and I expect another one for another branch of ASDA to be appearing shortly.
Many thanks for any advice on how to proceed.

Below is my first draft of the wording I may use for further appeals:
I have sought legal advice over this matter. Apart from not having the funds to pay these charges (I am a travelling musician and make my living by playing music on the street), I am given to understand these charges represent a claim for damages for breach of contract. For this purpose they are out of proportion and are in fact a punitive fine in disguise. I have no choice but to appeal since I do not have the funds to pay and will take my appeal to POPLA if you reject this appeal. I will also add that I have not been present at my DVLA registered address for some months and did not hear about your letters until after the final of these several incidents of overstaying occurred. If I had known that these car parks enforced the time limits so rigidly I would have been more circumspect in my actions. I shall certainly adhere to the time limits on my future travels.

waamo

That appeal will get you nowhere. They are punative charges and they are allowed to charge them so it's a complete none starter.

At the top of this board is a thread that tells Newbies to read it first. In it are more substantial templates to use.

Your first line of action should be to try and get a landowner cancellation. That kills the charge dead.

White_Van

Thanks for your reply Waamo. I have read the Newbies thread. The one that advises posting a new topic to get started at the end. I will now endeavour to contact the land owner for the first three incidents, a chain store branch in Glastonbury. The two others are two different branches of ASDA. Thanks for your advice.

Umkomaas

If I was asked to draft the worst appeal possible, I'd just copy and paste yours. It's a nonsense and will guarantee rejection.

You need to prioritise your actions in dealing separately with each ticket.

1. Where the PE 28-day deadline is imminent (say next 5 days or so), send the initial appeal from the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #1. Forget any crap about being a musician, travelling the highways and byways or the fact you're broke. If they take you to court and lose and you can't pay, then you'll get a CCJ. That will smash your credit rating for years!

2. Those with a longer lead-in time to the deadline, you need to be getting on to the landowner/retailer(s) on site and see if they will intervene and get your tickets cancelled. If they won't/can't you'll then need to use the template from the sticky again, for each ticket separately.

3. You have a very good chance of getting a manager cancellation by Asda. They will instruct PE to cancel if you can make a good case to the manager (not the CS fob-off assistant), such as proof of regular patronage, recent receipts (especially for the days of the infringements).

I must say, from the number of tickets you've received over a very short space of time, you seem to have no regard for the wishes of the landowners in them offering you a limited time to park your vehicle, you need to wise up as at almost every private car park around the country PPCs are massing, installing their cameras and while grabbing serial abusers - as you appear to be - they also net very innocent people who have made a very minor error, then slamming them mercilessly at £100 a go.

Rant over, we will try to help you, but I rather suspect for some of these tickets, you'll need to be singing a few more songs and saving up!

White_Van

Thanks for your reply Umkomaas,

Here is the email I propose sending to the land owner re the first 3 PCN. Please advise:

Dear Sir/Madam,

My communication is in regard to 3 Parking Charge Notices I have received from ParkingEye for overstaying the 90 minutes free parking limit at your Glastonbury branch. My registration number X X X X XXX. I am the registered keeper of the vehicle, X X X X X XXXX.

I am an itinerant musician (Busker) and have been a frequent visitor to Glastonbury over the last 6 years. I also supplement my income with occasional handyman work. In this capacity I have been a regular customer of your Glastonbury branch.

Over the years my routine in Glastonbury has been on many occasions to visit you store to purchase small items needed for my work and then go for coffee somewhere nearby, leaving my vehicle in your car park.

Until recently I have never received any complaint about slightly overstaying the time limit though I'm sure I must have done so on several occasions.

This year however it seems the situation has changed and I have received the PCN'S I mentioned above. Unfortunately as I travel extensively for my work I had no knowledge of the letters sent to my DVLA registered address until after I had overstayed on 3 occasions over the course of my stay in Glastonbury.

While I understand the reason your store has made this change in policy as many vehicle owners travelling through the town abuse the free parking offered by the town's shops and supermarkets, I feel certain it was not your intention to alienate your regular customers with the sudden imposition of draconian measures.

From my research into the system used by companies such as ParkingEye, I understand that it is possible for the land owner that contracts the services of a parking management company to forgive transgressions and instruct the company to cancel the charges. If you are not the land owner, please inform me who is, and I will direct my appeal to that party.

I therefore appeal to you company to forgive these transgressions and cancel the parking charges that have been demanded by ParkingEye and accept my assurance that the abuse of the privilege will never be repeated.

I must add that it is way beyond my means as an itinerant musician living a frugal life to meet the demands of a payment of £210.

Many thanks for your consideration of this appeal. I hope I can continue to be a loyal customer and have a good and friendly relationship with you company.

Yours sincerely,
(name supplied)

Umkomaas

See my comment over on PePiPoo - I'd change 'itinerant' to 'peripatetic', otherwise, to me, it looks fine.

Leave it the day to see if there are any other comments.

White_Van

Thanks again for your advice Umkomaas,. I have read the Newbies thread and cannot find the template for initial appeal you refer to. Could you please be more specific? Thanks.
Regarding damage to my credit rating, I do not use credit generally speaking so I'm not sure I am worried. My real fear is that I will have my vehicle ceased by bailiffs. Is this in your opinion a possible outcome?
Further I have not been living in the UK for very long and this new camera technology is all quite new to me. Stupidly, I was thinking, nothing on windscreen - no problem. This, combined with not having been present at my DVLA address for some time kept me unaware of transgressions I was committing. Agreed I need to wise up and am doing so fairly rapidly.

Redx

blue text one size fits all appeal is in post #1 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread

you can be fined up to £1000 for not updating the V5C and the same again for not updating your driving license with your current address

any CCJ,s will be or can be registered against the address of your mums for now unless you change the address for service of papers to your current one , by informing the claimant

if that happens, any enforcement by bailiffs can include seizing of your assets etc, if they can find them

your credit rating can include mobile phone contracts etc , so can harm any future plans about renting or buying etc

in future, assume there is a parking regime on any private site, no actual or written permission means DONT PARK THERE

Umkomaas

Redx has given you the details on CCJs, but there's also an advisory thread scripted by beamerguy which you might also want to read.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5849106/the-ccj-myth-and-threats-and-lies-told-by-debt-collectors-and-ppcs-exposed

Coupon-mad

I have sought legal advice over this matter. Apart from not having the funds to pay these charges (I am a travelling musician and make my living by playing music on the street), I am given to understand these charges represent a claim for damages for breach of contract. For this purpose they are out of proportion and are in fact a punitive fine in disguise.

Whoever gave you that 'legal advice' hasn't a clue about ParkingEye v Beavis, which threw the 'extortionate fine/no loss caused' argument out of the window.

Anyway can we start with the obvious questions:

1. Are any of them Golden tickets? Did they all arrive within 14 days of the parking events. If not, why are you blabbing about who was driving and not using the 'registered keeper' template appeal from the NEWBIES thread instead?


2. - are they all within the 28 days to appeal? If not, send PE an email as your MUM in her name (you might need to set up a throwaway 'yourMum' email address) and tell PE as your Mum, that her son WhiteVan has moved away and she is unable to forward post given her own vulnerable situation, and can they please:

- erase her address from the records, and

- send the PCNs to you at xxxxxxx xxxxxxx address, so you can appeal them.

(That pulls back any PCNs that are out of the 28 day period, so that you then get sent your own PCNs and can see them, appeal them properly, and get future letters straight away). Takes her completely out of the equation too.

White_Van

Thanks, Redx.
I have found the step_1_letter under POPLA decisions. Please let me know if this not the correct document.
Re: My address. I'm basically living a nomadic life so my mother's address is also my address as far as having one at all. Unfortunately we have 'fallen out' and I am no longer welcome there. Previously I would be living there for short periods a few times a year. Whether this is satisfactory under the DVLA regulations, I know not. At present I have no other option. My short term plan is to (if possible) have my mail redirected to a friends address or a post office somewhere near my main area of operation.
As for CCJ, I suspect it would have little adverse affect. In any case if it came to a court judgement against me, I may elect to pay if I can.
Thanks for your help and useful information.