Curve just screwed themselves over

SnowTiger

Heng_Leng wrote: »

Hardly rocket science.
The merchant code will define the main business of the merchant.

E.G. you go to Tesco Extra - the supermarket, the cafe and the filling station have distinct merchant codes.

I've dumped Curve too BTW
Random declines, no S75 and no £200 ATM usage.

You've just proved my point.

A grocery purchase at Tesco:

Tesco Stores
22.89 POUND STERLING GREAT BRITAIN
Retailer name: Tesco Stores
Business type: Grocery Stores And Super

Coffee at Tesco's cafe:

Tesco Stores
4.60 POUND STERLING GREAT BRITAIN
Retailer name: Tesco Stores
Business type: Grocery Stores And Super

Wilko's business type is listed as 'Household Appliance Store'.

TKMaxx's business type is listed as 'VARIETY STORES'.

One.com's business type is listed as ' MISC/SPECIALTY RETAIL (FIREWRKS, TROPHIES, GRAVESTONES)'.

One.com is the biggest surprise. It provides Internet domain services.

It may not be rocket science, but it's not always obvious what a merchant's main business is or what MCC they use.

Mostly it doesn't matter to a credit card customer, but I think customers should be made aware when their purchase will be treated as a cash transaction which attracts a fee.

System

SnowTiger wrote: »

You've just proved my point.

A grocery purchase at Tesco:

Tesco Stores
22.89 POUND STERLING GREAT BRITAIN
Retailer name: Tesco Stores
Business type: Grocery Stores And Super

Coffee at Tesco's cafe:

Tesco Stores
4.60 POUND STERLING GREAT BRITAIN
Retailer name: Tesco Stores
Business type: Grocery Stores And Super

Wilko's business type is listed as 'Household Appliance Store'.

TKMaxx's business type is listed as 'VARIETY STORES'.

One.com's business type is listed as ' MISC/SPECIALTY RETAIL (FIREWRKS, TROPHIES, GRAVESTONES)'.

One.com is the biggest surprise. It provides Internet domain services.

It may not be rocket science, but it's not always obvious what a merchant's main business is or what MCC they use.

Mostly it doesn't matter to a credit card customer, but I think customers should be made aware when their purchase will be treated as a cash transaction which attracts a fee.

How does it prove your point?

I used a Tesco Extra, Cafe (in-store Costa) and Filling station.
All were classified correctly - unlike your instance.

The MCC allow the issuer to assess risk etc, not really for price differentials as such.

SnowTiger

Heng_Leng wrote: »

How does it prove your point?

I used a Tesco Extra, Cafe (in-store Costa) and Filling station.
All were classified correctly - unlike your instance.

My point is that it's difficult for a customer to know what MCC a purchase will be classified under.

You wrote: 'Hardly rocket science.
The merchant code will define the main business of the merchant.'

I had a quick scan through a few previous statements and demonstrated that MCC's are sometimes out of whack with 'the main business of the merchant'.

Heng_Leng wrote: »

The MCC allow the issuer to assess risk etc, not really for price differentials as such.

They are also used to determine if a transaction is 'cash-like', thus attracting a fee.

System

SnowTiger wrote: »

My point is that it's difficult for a customer to know what MCC a purchase will be classified under.

You wrote: 'Hardly rocket science.
The merchant code will define the main business of the merchant.'

I had a quick scan through a few previous statements and demonstrated that MCC's are sometimes out of whack with 'the main business of the merchant'.



They are also used to determine if a transaction is 'cash-like', thus attracting a fee.

The MCC is primarily for the card issuer.
It's fairly irreverent to the card holder in most instances.

The fee (charged to the card holder) will be determined by T&Cs between the card issuer and the card holder on a commercial basis. I'm unaware of any issuer fee T&Cs that refer to the MCC.

Terry_Towelling

Heng_Leng wrote: »

The fee (charged to the card holder) will be determined by T&Cs between the card issuer and the card holder on a commercial basis. I'm unaware of any issuer fee T&Cs that refer to the MCC.

Correct, but isn't that the point of the debate? Cardholders won't know when they are going to be charged a cash or quasi-cash fee because the MCC seems to be the trigger for the latter and different Issuers seem to be adopting different stances towards quasi-cash transactions.

SnowTiger

Heng_Leng wrote: »

The MCC is primarily for the card issuer.
It's fairly irreverent to the card holder in most instances.

The fee (charged to the card holder) will be determined by T&Cs between the card issuer and the card holder on a commercial basis. I'm unaware of any issuer fee T&Cs that refer to the MCC.

If I top up my William Hill betting account using my Barclaycard it will be treated as a cash-like transaction and Barclaycard will charge me a cash transaction fee.

It will likely have a 7995 — Betting (including Lottery Tickets, Casino Gaming Chips, Off-track Betting and Wagers at Race Tracks) — MCC.

Your position is that Barclaycard doesn't use the MCC to determine that it's a cash-like transaction.

What method do you think they use?

Bringing this back to Curve, this is what they have to say about it:

Please note that we pass through merchant category code (MCC) information to your card issuer, so they can also see whether or not you have withdrawn cash. Please be aware of cash withdrawal or cash advance fees applicable to your payment card. We recommend checking your card issuer's terms and conditions for whether any fees apply.

darren72

Has anyone tried paying off a Barclaycard or Virgin Money credit card bill with their Curve card ?

If so, was it charged as a cash advance ?

System

SnowTiger wrote: »

If I top up my William Hill betting account using my Barclaycard it will be treated as a cash-like transaction and Barclaycard will charge me a cash transaction fee.

It will likely have a 7995 — Betting (including Lottery Tickets, Casino Gaming Chips, Off-track Betting and Wagers at Race Tracks) — MCC.

Your position is that Barclaycard doesn't use the MCC to determine that it's a cash-like transaction.

What method do you think they use?

Bringing this back to Curve, this is what they have to say about it:

Kindly don't misrepresent 'my position' - you clearly don't even understand what I'm saying.

Barclaycard charge you because that the agreement between you and them specifics that they can. It will be determined by wording not by the MCC.

faddy

Heng_Leng wrote: »

Barclaycard charge you because that the agreement between you and them specifics that they can. It will be determined by wording not by the MCC.

Wording that allows them to charge a cash transaction fee for a gambling transaction. How do they determine whether a transaction is a gambling transaction?

Terry_Towelling

Heng_Leng wrote: »

Kindly don't misrepresent 'my position' - you clearly don't even understand what I'm saying.

Barclaycard charge you because the agreement between you and them specifies that they can. It will be determined by wording not by the MCC.

Once again, yes, we all understand that but if we don't know what any given card issuer is looking at when deciding to charge a handling fee how do we know what to expect?

If it is down to the MCC, we might have the problem already highlighted whereby a meal in a casino will be processed using the same MCC as the purchase of gaming chips - so, will we get a cash handling fee imposed for buying our potato chips as well as for buying our gaming chips?

Is there perhaps a quasi-cash indicator in the transaction message that is used to differentiate between the types of purchase? Sadly, I've been out of cards for so long I cannot remember if such an indicator exists - and if it does, is it correctly used? Anyone on the forum got access to that sort of information?

Just for the record (again) and because this whole issue runs far deeper, a pure cash transaction (i.e ATM or bank counter) has a TC07 identifying it as cash and an MCC 6010/6011. That will trigger an interchange fee flow from issuer to acquirer and hence the issuer cash handling fee to recover their outlay.

For all purchase transactions (TC05) which includes cash-like transactions it is my understanding (could be wrong) that the interchange fee flow is from acquirer to issuer and hence no cash fee should be applied regardless of the MCC because the issuer has no outlay to recover. In fact it is the opposite and the issuer will have received a fee, so any handling charge in such circumstances has no basis in cost and is straight profiteering - regardless of the fact that the T&Cs may allow it.