any housewives out there?

humptydumptybits

Alikay wrote: »

They may earn the same money for the same job, but what about different but equivalent roles? A nurse does a 3 year degree, frequent ongoing training, works irregular hours and is responsible for peoples lives, yet earns less than a train driver - why? I know that both careers are open to both genders (or should I say, all genders :cool:) but the reality is that men are less attracted into caring professions for various reasons (money, perceived skills base, socialisation etc)

My son is a nurse, he qualified less than 5 years ago and has been promoted several times and earns good money, I just checked the average pay for a train driver and he is earning more than some and less than others. There is scope for progression in nursing and he was lucky enough to train when there were no uni fees and a bursary. He also enjoyed being outnumbered by women on his degree, he had a great social life.

onomatopoeia99

Tabbytabitha wrote: »

I'm afraid that's a very naive point of view and comes pretty close to victim blaming. Women generally aren't paid less than men because they haven't worked hard and made the best of their educational opportunities when younger.

It's nothing like victim blaming at all. If a school takes on a woman straight out of her PGCE, they will pay her the same as a man. No gender pay gap. We took on someone in a skilled professional role straight after their degree last year. This time, it was a woman, she's sat at the desk next to mine right now in fact, had it been a man that was successful at interview, we would have offered the same salary. Our new employee has exactly the same opportunities that a male employee in the same role would have.

I want to know why a female teacher, lawyer, engineer, doctor etc that does not yet have children would be earning less at 30 than a male counterpart of the same age. If you can explain a reason that I don't know, I'll accept "naive".

davidwood681

onomatopoeia99 wrote: »

It's nothing like victim blaming at all. If a school takes on a woman straight out of her PGCE, they will pay her the same as a man. No gender pay gap. We took on someone in a skilled professional role straight after their degree last year. This time, it was a woman, she's sat at the desk next to mine right now in fact, had it been a man that was successful at interview, we would have offered the same salary. Our new employee has exactly the same opportunities that a male employee in the same role would have.

I want to know why a female teacher, lawyer, engineer, doctor etc that does not yet have children would be earning less at 30 than a male counterpart of the same age. If you can explain a reason that I don't know, I'll accept "naive".

I think, ironically, that women under 30 now earn more than men if you go by the same rules as those who think there is a pay gap. (in their eyes that is fine though )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7GWHgVZJQU

Great video here from Johnathan Pie

fibonarchie

maman wrote: »

In my very short career as a 'housewife', I found it an absolute doddle. I could get all the housework done and still have heaps of time left over to be a lady what lunches, goes to coffee mornings or anything else I chose to do. There seem to be masses of groups that children can go along to for music or gymnastics or swimming or just playing while the mums gossip.

Ah, I think we might need a better definition of housewife, then. As in, someone who cooks from scratch, looks after the children and runs the home, rather than someone who flies around with a duster once in a while and dumps the kids in a 'club' while she goes out and lunches with her women friends.

FBaby

My husband travelled overseas a lot and so I gave up my career.

Everytime this issue is discussed, someone comes to say they had to give up their job because of their travelling partner. Very few working men travelled abroad for their job, most only work 1h or less from their home, so it really doesn't explain the most common reason for women to give up their job and stay at home.

If women genuinely believe they deserve to be paid for the jobs they do at home, then maybe they should also consider what comes with a paid job... that is accepting that even if they get no sleep at all because of a screaming baby all night, there is no option for doing the job later or another day. They will specific timescales by which the job needs to be completed. They will have to accept working within specific parameters they might not agree to and accept that their job is inspected. They will have to shut up when they are told that the cleaning has not been done to standard, even if they sweated over it and think it is spotless. Then when they invite friends over and friends compliment on how clean her house his, she will have to keep quite and smile when her husband takes all the credit!

That's what it's like in the real world, and what the pay makes up for.

happyandcontented

FBaby wrote: »

Everytime this issue is discussed, someone comes to say they had to give up their job because of their travelling partner. Very few working men travelled abroad for their job, most only work 1h or less from their home, so it really doesn't explain the most common reason for women to give up their job and stay at home.

If women genuinely believe they deserve to be paid for the jobs they do at home, then maybe they should also consider what comes with a paid job... that is accepting that even if they get no sleep at all because of a screaming baby all night, there is no option for doing the job later or another day. They will specific timescales by which the job needs to be completed. They will have to accept working within specific parameters they might not agree to and accept that their job is inspected. They will have to shut up when they are told that the cleaning has not been done to standard, even if they sweated over it and think it is spotless. Then when they invite friends over and friends compliment on how clean her house his, she will have to keep quite and smile when her husband takes all the credit!

That's what it's like in the real world, and what the pay makes up for.

In my experience, a lot of high flying men travel extensively. My husband did and a lot of my friend's husbands did/do.

That sounds like being a doormat to me, not a paid employee, either by an 'employer' or a 'husband'

FBaby

In my experience, a lot of high flying men travel extensively

Yes, but the ratio of flying men is low compared to the number of fathers working.

A bit of an exaggeration with my example, but it doesn't take away that being paid to do a job comes with restrictions and lack of control that the housewife doesn't have.

ManofLeisure_2

fibonarchie wrote: »

Ah, I think we might need a better definition of housewife, then. As in, someone who cooks from scratch, looks after the children and runs the home, rather than someone who flies around with a duster once in a while and dumps the kids in a 'club' while she goes out and lunches with her women friends.

I would advise the wearing of a tin hat when you return to the thread

Kayalana99

fibonarchie wrote: »

Ah, I think we might need a better definition of housewife, then. As in, someone who cooks from scratch, looks after the children and runs the home, rather than someone who flies around with a duster once in a while and dumps the kids in a 'club' while she goes out and lunches with her women friends.

In my experience it's a happy mediam, lets face it there are very few percent of woman that literally deciate themselves to their kids, including doing educational activities constantly + taking them out everyday and filling the rest of the time either cooking or cleaning.

I guess it's one of those jobs you could do 60 hours + or you could do 5+ hours...but lets face it most people fall nicely in the middle.

Most woman I knew from school run who were stay at home mums, did the extra things like attending craft fairs etc, took their kids out for 'play dates' with other mums, and found time to get their nails done / go out for coffees with other mums and just generally enjoying their free time as well as doting on their kids.

Nothing wrong with that, all my point was is that you can't class yourself as 'busy' if you are finding time to do things like coffee dates with friends etc nearly everyday and spending 60+min talking to people outside the school gates. Again, no issue with what they are doing, just don't take it out on Husband who isn't 'helping'!

System

My mum has been a working mum (all thoughout me being younger and for my first sister) then she became a stay at home um with my younger sister and brother. We were lucky that my dad earned enough for mum to stay at home. I do feel i missed out a bit with her working when i was a kid, she at that point was a single mum with a mortgage to pay so she had no choice but to work and my grandparents did the majority of childcare (plus point to that is that i had a wonderful close relationship with them and lots of happy memories ) She did retrain whilst my youngest siblings were still kids, she went to nightschool to get qualifications but in the end she didn;t go back to work.

I will say one negative about her being a stay at home mum was that she did everything for us (cooking/washing/cleaning), i had to ask her to show me how to fry an egg when i went to uni :rotfl: because i was so used to her doing it for us, but we all grew up and mananaged so im not saying she did a bad job raising us. My younger sister and bother still live at home (moved back after uni) so shes got a house full again. My dad retires in december so at least they will have more time together.


Personally i'd hate it, i like being at work, it keeps my mind active and from expereince staying at home tends to exaburate my illness and for me its important that i work because i need that to feel "normal" (not saying those that dont work are abnormal i mean in the sense that i'm mentally ill and holding down a job seems like a normal thing to do that everyone else does if that makes sense?), and i've worked hard the past 5 years to get where i am now. But if it works for you, do what makes you happy.

My best friend and his gf have both just given up their jobs as teachers (they discovered you had zero work/life balance and it was costing them a fortune in childcare), his gf has now got a new job and in the meantime my friend will be a stay at home dad for the 3 year old and 18month year old.