Help! Left rented house, what's he legal position on bills

sheepy21

Help please!

We rented from my grandad, we gave one month's notice just over a week ago. We left the property on 28th July to move into our own home. We are paying him rent until 20th August, despite having already moved out. We said we'd obviously no longer be liable for water and electricity (we've taken readings and shutting accounts). We also said we'd pay council tax until the end of the month but that from 1st August we wouldn't be paying it.
We've completely emptied the house, had it professionally cleaned and passed on relevant info such as electricity company.
Does anyone know the legal standpoint on all this? There is no contract for what it's worth. He's now harassing my family and I want to be sure there isn't anything he could come after us about from a legal perspective.
He doesn't have a phone number for us or know our new address, he's threatening to hunt us down! I feel that if he finds us and harasses us we would be in our rights to call the police?
We're feeling very stressed and upset and last thing we need having just bought our first home

Cleo&tammy

if there's no tenancy agreement then i wouldn't worry about legal issues and one month notice is all that is needed to end a tenancy without a written agreement.

G_M

Cleo&tammy wrote: »

if there's no tenancy agreement then i wouldn't worry about legal issues and one month notice is all that is needed to end a tenancy without a written agreement.

What a load of rubbish!


* Of course there is a tenancy agreement. It is a verbal one. A property was provided and rent paid in return: a tenancy agreement exists

* It seems likely (not enough information to be sure) that it was a monthly Contractual Periodic Tenancy from the start, with each 'period' running from 21st to 20th of each month (assumption based on "paying him rent until 20th August").

* that being so, notice served "just over a week ago", say 23rd July, would expire on 20th September (covering the full 'period' from 21st Aug - 20th Sept).

* However if notice was served on/before 21st July then it would expire a month earlier on 20th August.

* so the tenancy ends on either 20th Aug or 20th Sept

* Until the tenancy ends (on one of those 2 dates) the tenant remains liable for utilities. The fact that the tenant might be absent (go on holiday, be in hospital or in prison, or moved out) is irrelevant. Utilities remain the tenant's responsibility until the tenancy ends.

* so much for the legal position. In practice one would hope/expect that a grandfather would be more flexible, but your post (and your previous thread) suggests he is likely to enforce his rights.

* if he "hunts you down", he could certainly enforce his rights.
If he did so lawfully (eg via legal action) the police would not be interested.
If he did so unlawfully (eg violent threats) you could involve the police.


edit: just glanced back at your previous thread. Much of this was covered there (eg the notice period required) so why have you ignored that and given the wrong notice, and why expect other liabilities (utilities) to end before the tenancy ends?


I even wonder whether this is just a wind up.

FBaby

Lets put it this way, legally, he can't entered the property without your consent. You are still in contract, you are still paying, it is still your residence.

Has your granddad reclaimed the place? Is he trying to rent it again asap?

TBagpuss

What is he threatening to hunt you down *for*? What does he say you owe?

As others have said, you are responsible for the utilities until the tenancy ends, at the end of the notice period.

macman

Did you pay a deposit? Was it protected? Were you supplied with a current gas safety certificate at the start of the tenancy?
As above, I'm unclear as to why he is harassing or threatening you?

saajan_12

sheepy21 wrote: »

Help please!

We rented from my grandad, we gave one month's notice just over a week ago. Was this one full tenancy period? What notice period was agreed (even if that was verbal)? If nothing was agreed,
it would be reasonable to assume the standard 1 tenancy period We left the property on 28th July to move into our own home. - okay, not really relevant to your obligations under the tenancy. We are paying him rent until 20th August, despite having already moved out. - as you should, since your obligations under the tenancy continue atleast until 20 Aug (or longer if your notice was invalid) We said we'd obviously no longer be liable for water and electricity (we've taken readings and shutting accounts). - Incorrect, you are still liable until your tenancy is properly terminated. If your notice was valid then this is 20 Aug. While there should be little/no usage, if you've left anything on e.g. heating, lights, fridge, this would be at your expense until 20 Aug.
Also you're responsible for any standing charges. We also said we'd pay council tax until the end of the month but that from 1st August we wouldn't be paying it. - You can say that but its unreasonable. You are still liable under a contractual periodic tenancy until your tenancy ends.
We've completely emptied the house, had it professionally cleaned and passed on relevant info such as electricity company. -
okay, your choice. You had to clean to the same standard as it was when your tenancy started.
Does anyone know the legal standpoint on all this? There is no contract for what it's worth. - There was a contract, you had housing in return for rent. There may be no written record of that contract but that is irrelevant. He's now harassing my family and I want to be sure there isn't anything he could come after us about from a legal perspective. - What do you mean by harassing? Making inquiries to find the contact details for someone who owes you money is fine. Making personal violent threats is not.

He doesn't have a phone number for us or know our new address, he's threatening to hunt us down! - if 'hunt us down' is an expression for 'find us' then that is reasonable, as you've left no contact details. If 'hunt us down' literally means 'kill us' then report that to police. I feel that if he finds us and harasses us we would be in our rights to call the police? - depends on what you mean by harassment. Repeatedly contacting you to ensure you fulfill your responsibilities is not harassment.
We're feeling very stressed and upset and last thing we need having just bought our first home- easy way to stop the stress: pay your dues.

First check whether your notice is valid - was it a full tenancy period (ie if periods are 21st - 20th and you served by 21st July (ie hand delivered by 21st or posted 2 days before that) then only can your notice terminate the tenancy on 20th Aug. If you missed that deadline, then the earliest you can end it is 20th Sept.

You are responsible for council tax, utility bills, etc upto the tenancy end date, regardless of when you move out. Suggest you reinstate your accounts and pay for your liabilities, then he will have no reason to chase you.

sheepy21

This isn't a wind up thread, it's a thread from someone that is mentally in a bad place and being bullied by someone! I'm not asking about notice like my previous thread, this is completely separate.

I did give correct notice, for the tenancy to end on 20th August. I've taken meter readings on electricity and water, why would I be paying for utilities he is using if I'm not living there? He's about to put it up to be rented out an dhoping to get someone straight in. He has all the keys and we have NO access to the property.

The threatening to hunt us down is because he's a complete psycho that wants control over us and he's beside himself where we're not letting him control us and have refused to give him our address.

Pixie5740

It's not a separate issue it's a pertinent issue since the date the tenancy legally ends depends entirely on what date you actually served notice. About a week ago on 31st July could go either way from 20th August or 20th September assuming your tenancy originally started on the 21st of a month.

Anyway, as it was a periodic tenancy I don't think you're liable for council tax from the time you vacated the property. The other utilities are a bit of a grey area however if no one is occupying the property the bills will be minimal, mostly just standing charges really.

Your grandfather could take you to court for the utilities, in fact he could take you to court for anything, whether he would win is another matter entirely. If he doesn't know where you are living then he will find it difficult to serve court papers anyway.

Comms69

sheepy21 wrote: »

This isn't a wind up thread, it's a thread from someone that is mentally in a bad place and being bullied by someone! I'm not asking about notice like my previous thread, this is completely separate.

I did give correct notice, for the tenancy to end on 20th August. I've taken meter readings on electricity and water, why would I be paying for utilities he is using if I'm not living there? He's about to put it up to be rented out an dhoping to get someone straight in. He has all the keys and we have NO access to the property.

The threatening to hunt us down is because he's a complete psycho that wants control over us and he's beside himself where we're not letting him control us and have refused to give him our address.

How much of a threat is he really?...


(and why did you give him keys etc if you were still the tenant for another 19 days?)

Pixie5740

Good grief Charlie Brown!

sheepy21 wrote: »

Does anyone know the legal standpoint on all this? There is no contract for what it's worth.

Is not quite the same as....

sheepy21 wrote: »

Things have been pretty relaxed, there was no deposit. We had a contract but it's long become lost, we never thought we'd move out so until it hasn't been an issue. We've upheld our end of the agreement and spent thousands on improvements whilst he has broken the agreement in various ways, but we've let it slide for the sake of family