Help! Left rented house, what's he legal position on bills

Pixie5740

sheepy21 wrote: »

Everyone seems to miss this point- THE NOTICE WE GAVE IS VALID FOR TENANCY TO END 20th AUGUST. So notice isn't a problem as it's valid and we've paid the rent.

We gave back all the keys as we needed to be done with the property and didn't want any link to the house or him. I have a child with disabilities, I'm not moving back in to be petty when I've just bought a house!
He's harassing my family as they live near him and he's my dads dad!
He hasn't said he's pursuing us for money, but I was trying to clarify the legal standpoint on it all incase he did. We turned everything off so water and and electricity won't be running, it's only being used by HIS decorator, so I can't see we should be paying for that when he has possession of the property? And it's my understanding that as landlord he doesn't have to pay council tax because the property is empty and unfurnished? Council asked on council tax form the date we moved out, which I told them so I'm assuming it's down to them how it's all worked out

How can you possibly know that if you lost the original tenancy agreement?

You also don't know what liability you agreed to in the original agreement with regards to council tax and utilities. It could be the case that you agreed to remain liable until the end of the tenancy and not just when you moved out.

Did you really switch off the electricity and water? That seems unlikely. As I said earlier your grandfather can take you to court claiming whatever he likes but first he needs to know where to serve court papers and going to court and winning his case are two separate things.

Continue to ignore him if you wish or agree to some kind of settlement for the sake of the family harmony. The choice is yours.

saajan_12

sheepy21 wrote: »

I've taken meter readings on electricity and water, why would I be paying for utilities he is using if I'm not living there?

Because you're contractually obliged to pay for all bills & council tax until your tenancy actually ends. No usage doesn't mean no standing charges.

sheepy21 wrote: »

I'm wondering if implied surrender could be at play here? Could it be argued that's he's accepted our surrender of the property? Please keep your responses kind, I don't need people being unkind to me on here

- we've emptied and cleaned the property
- handed over all keys and have no access
- grandad/landlord is entering whenever he wants without permission from us and is letting in estate agents etc
- grandad/landlord is having property redecorated

An early surrender is a modification of the original agreement, rather than serving notice in accordance with the agreement. As such, an early surrender would need to be formally agreed. Plus, your payment of rent upto 20 Aug would imply otherwise.

Pixie5740 wrote: »

Anyway, as it was a periodic tenancy I don't think you're liable for council tax from the time you vacated the property. - that's specifically for Statutory Periodic Tenancies following a fixed term. If the OP didn't have a written contract, I'd guess it was more likely CPT from the start rather than SPT. Then council tax is fully the tenant's responsibility until the tenancy ends ie 20Aug. The other utilities are a bit of a grey area however if no one is occupying the property the bills will be minimal, mostly just standing charges really. - Depends on the deal chosen, standing charges can be significant. If the tenant agreed and has been responsible for utilities during their tenancy then that doesn't change just becuse they moved out.

Your grandfather could take you to court for the utilities, in fact he could take you to court for anything, whether he would win is another matter entirely. - yes, its not guaranteed he'd win, but I'd say pretty likely for the things mentioned here ie council tax, utilities.
If he doesn't know where you are living then he will find it difficult to serve court papers anyway.

Pixie5740

Is the council tax situation different between a Contractual Periodic Tenancy and a Statutory Periodic Tenancy. The OP did have a written contract (see quote I posted from another thread) it's just that (s)he doesn't know where it is now. Who knows what that said about periodic tenancies and utilities?

Comms69

Pixie5740 wrote: »

Is the council tax situation different between a Contractual Periodic Tenancy and a Statutory Periodic Tenancy. The OP did have a written contract (see quote I posted from another thread) it's just that (s)he doesn't know where it is now. Who knows what that said about periodic tenancies and utilities?

Liability to the council changes; but the OP could owe it to the LL. ( I know you know this; more for others )

G_M

sheepy21 wrote: »

Everyone seems to miss this point- THE NOTICE WE GAVE IS VALID FOR TENANCY TO END 20th AUGUST. So notice isn't a problem as it's valid and we've paid the rent.

You may be right. In my post I stated the tenancy would end on 20th August or 20th Sept.

You have consistently avoided confirming when/how notice was served so for us, at least, this remains in doubt. Hence we advise on the legal position of both possibilities.

But irrespective of that, you remain liable for utilities till August 20th (or Sept 20th) as advised,

We turned everything off so water and and electricity won't be running,

Do either or both accounts include a standing charge? this would remain chargeable.

sheepy21

Notice was given in writing on 21st July. This was acknowledged and accepted within half an hour of giving it.
I'm not aware of any standing charges :think:
AST was for five years, we lived there over six so were on a statutory periodic tenancy, so far as I understand it.

Anyway, the family all had a big bust up today and apparently he wanted to get hold of us to get us to pay for a door handle :rotfl: it's about 40yrs old, I repeatedly had to fix it and he wanted us to pay for a new one :rotfl:

Comms69

sheepy21 wrote: »

Notice was given in writing on 21st July. This was acknowledged and accepted within half an hour of giving it.
I'm not aware of any standing charges :think:
AST was for five years, we lived there over six so were on a statutory periodic tenancy, so far as I understand it.

Anyway, the family all had a big bust up today and apparently he wanted to get hold of us to get us to pay for a door handle :rotfl: it's about 40yrs old, I repeatedly had to fix it and he wanted us to pay for a new one :rotfl:

AST was for 5 years, are you sure? Because that would need to be executed as a deed I believe.

You cannot know whether it was SPT or not. And therefore you can’t know if the notice was correct.

Red-Squirrel_2

sheepy21 wrote: »

I'm not aware of any standing charges :think:

There are always standing charges, google it, you will owe those.

InterestedParty2018

It is my understanding that the date you physically leave the property is irrelevant for the purpose of liability for utilities.

If your notice expires on 20 August, then this is the date to which you are responsible.

In *theory* the property would be vacant during this period, so therefore consumption (gas, elec & water) would be nil, and therefore you would only be paying for the daily standing charges.

I dont believe the council give discounts for vacant periods unless building work is underway. (I stand to be corrected here.)

Of course because of your soured relationship with your grandfather, are you expecting him to enter the premises after you have vacated and run the electricity, gas & water? Thus, running up the cost?

I dont know if this would be entirely successful, but if it was me, I would write to all the utilities concerned, explain the circumstances (ie tenancy termination date and physical vacation date), provide the readings taken on the day you vacated (ideally take photographs of meters), and ask for a final invoice until that day. Pay it in full.

If/when you get chased for the period between vacating day and actual termination day, then you can make a judgement call about what is reasonable. If it is standing charges only, then you can pay it. If your landlord/grandad has run up £100's of charges, then you would need to seek legal advice, as you may need to take the matter to court.

I would like to think that if your landlord/grandad was vindictive enough to run up bills, and if it was before a judge, by presenting the facts above, then he will find himself in a very sticky situation to defend it.

Good Luck

letitbe90

Ignoring what your liability is and notice etc - can I ask, what does your grandad want? You mention "control", but he can't sue you for not being under his control

Is he saying you still owe him money? Is he just wanting you to stay in his house forever? What is it that is in dispute exactly with your grandad monetary wise.