Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

phillw

ukcarper wrote: »

Would it not be possible to sort out a means by which component parts can be shipped between EU and U.K. without needing to be checked at border. I think it would without impacting greatly on free market, but EU seem to rule that out on what to me look like idealistic reasons.

No it would not be. Look what happens if things aren't checked.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/avocados-carrots-self-service-scam-supermarkets-checkout-stealing-a8370621.html

Everything would become car parts, whether it was alcohol, tobacco, illegal immigrants etc. Then you'd have to check that the things people were claiming to be car parts were actually car parts before deciding whether you could let them through without checking them. I think you can see the idiocy that this would create.

To solve this problem you need a system where all goods can be moved within the EU without checking and only goods from outside the EU have tariffs which are all the same. Plus a system where all EU citizens are allowed to move freely and collectively deal with immigrants from outside the EU. If we all work together the costs will be much lower.

The problem with the "there are problem solvers & problem finders" argument, is that it's normally put forward by people who are oblivious to problems even when they are staring them in the face. I would always hire a problem finder, if someone can't find a problem then there is no way we can solve it. Instead the "problem solver" is likely going to suggest going down a route which has no economic or practical value. i.e. brexit

mayonnaise

Tee_Maynott wrote: »

In life there are two types of people.
Problem finders.
Problem solvers.

Guess which most employers prefer to hire?

Remainers.

A majority of those working full-time or part-time voted to remain in the EU; most of those not working voted to leave.

https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/

Does this answer your question?

ukcarper

phillw wrote: »

No it would not be. Look what happens if things aren't checked.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/avocados-carrots-self-service-scam-supermarkets-checkout-stealing-a8370621.html

Everything would become car parts, whether it was alcohol, tobacco, illegal immigrants etc. Then you'd have to check that the things people were claiming to be car parts were actually car parts before deciding whether you could let them through without checking them.

To solve this problem you need a system where all goods can be moved within the EU without checking and only goods from outside the EU have tariffs which are all the same. Plus a system where we allow all EU citizens are allowed to move freely and collectively deal with immigrants from outside the EU. Collectively the costs will be lower.

The goods would be going directly from component factory to assembly plant OK it will require a certain amount in trust in car manufacturers but not impossible. This is what has struck me since vote the EU seem to want to make things as difficult to us as possible for us even if it harms them as well. I expected the EU to be a bit more accommodating especially as 48% of us voted remain and they punishing us as well as leave voters.

phillw

ukcarper wrote: »

The goods would be going directly from component factory to assembly plant OK it will require a certain amount in trust in car manufacturers but not impossible.

Car manufacturers have proven themselves untrustworthy with dieselgate etc.

The UK will no longer be contributing to the EU costs, so there would be import duties to be paid and VAT to be paid and reclaimed. So it's not even just a case of making sure the lorry leaves with car parts, you need to know just how many there were. Otherwise it opens up some very easy fraud to make.

http://www.slate.com/articles/business/how_failure_breeds_success/2014/05/richard_branson_tax_fraud_how_a_youthful_indiscretion_helped_create_a_billionaire.html?via=gdpr-consent

Every other industry would then also wonder why car manufacturers were trusted but they weren't & would demand the same treatment. Which would be a return to the 1970's, where some industries were propped up by government money and others were left to flounder

So what you're suggesting is impossible.

We're either heading for brexageddon or ukip 2.0 filled with people who don't care what damage occurs to the UK, just as long as we can stop foreigners coming here.

What I don't get is why 52% of the country want to live in an intolerant country. The EU isn't perfect by any means, but the alternative is much much worse.

We've not really moved on from https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/05/brexit-donald-trump-trade-deal-bendy-bananas-stewart-lee

ukcarper

phillw wrote: »

Car manufacturers have proven themselves untrustworthy with dieselgate etc.

The UK will no longer be contributing to the EU costs, so there would be import duties to be paid and VAT to be paid and reclaimed. So it's not even just a case of making sure the lorry leaves with car parts, you need to know just how many there were. Otherwise it opens up some very easy fraud to make.

http://www.slate.com/articles/business/how_failure_breeds_success/2014/05/richard_branson_tax_fraud_how_a_youthful_indiscretion_helped_create_a_billionaire.html?via=gdpr-consent

Every other industry would then also wonder why car manufacturers were trusted but they weren't & would demand the same treatment. Which would be a return to the 1970's, where some industries were propped up by government money and others were left to flounder

So what you're suggesting is impossible.

We're either heading for brexageddon or ukip 2.0 filled with people who don't care what damage occurs to the UK, just as long as we can stop foreigners coming here.

What I don't get is why 52% of the country want to live in an intolerant country. The EU isn't perfect by any means, but the alternative is much much worse.

We've not really moved on from https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/05/brexit-donald-trump-trade-deal-bendy-bananas-stewart-lee

It wouldn't need to be restricted to just car industry and I think you are just putting barriers in the way. What makes you think 52% of the country want to live in an intolerant country just because people do not think the same as you does not make them intolerant.

phillw

ukcarper wrote: »

It wouldn't need to be restricted to just car industry and I think you are just putting barriers in the way.

No, I'm pointing out brain dead problems that you want to create. The EU won't let you create those problems.

It's disingenuous to argue that preventing the problems that you want to create, is a problem in itself. It's not, it's a solution.

It's just not a solution that you like, because you're the one creating the problem.

It would be like arguing that the overpopulation in prisons is a problem caused by the police, for arresting criminals.

ukcarper wrote: »

What makes you think 52% of the country want to live in an intolerant country just because people do not think the same as you does not make them intolerant.

By definition you have to be intolerant to vote leave. You did not want to tolerate foreigners coming here to work and contribute to our economy. You did not want to tolerate paying money to the EU in lieu of import duties. You did not want equal laws protecting all people no matter what country they came from.

When you stop tolerating other people, they stop tolerating you. This is a problem you have probably not found yet, so you have no concept of how it could be solved.

The EU isn't going to slit their own throats just so that the UK government can deliver brexit with no detriment to the UK economy. Remain voters wouldn't even expect them to, leave voters on the other hand would & I'll leave it to you to figure out why.

ukcarper

phillw wrote: »

No, I'm pointing out brain dead problems that you want to create. The EU won't let you create those problems.

It's disingenuous to argue that preventing the problems that you want to create, is a problem in itself. It's not, it's a solution.

It's just not a solution that you like, because you're the one creating the problem.

It would be like arguing that the overpopulation in prisons is a problem caused by the police, for arresting criminals.



By definition you have to be intolerant to vote leave. You did not want to tolerate foreigners coming here to work and contribute to our economy. You did not want to tolerate paying money to the EU in lieu of import duties. You did not want equal laws protecting all people no matter what country they came from.

When you stop tolerating other people, they stop tolerating you. This is a problem you have probably not found yet, so you have no concept of how it could be solved.

The problem effect both us and EU it has to be resolved it doesn't matter who caused it. You seem very bitter and do not have seem to have any idea why many people voted remain and seem unable to tolerate people unless they have same views as you.

phillw

ukcarper wrote: »

The problem effect both us and EU it has to be resolved it doesn't matter who caused it.

You only think that because you agree with the side who caused it. If the EU agreed a deal that had no detriment to us, but had detriment to the EU then the people in the EU will resent it. Cause enough resentment for long enough and it will cause instability. Whether it's trade wars or actual wars. The whole reason the EU was created was to end resentment that drove the constant wars in europe, which twice turned into world wars.

ukcarper wrote: »

You seem very bitter and do not have seem to have any idea why many people voted remain and seem unable to tolerate people unless they have same views as you.

I know the many reasons why people voted to leave. Some are racist/xenophobic, some were deliberately misinformed by self confesses liar Mr Banks and his friends, some did it as a protest vote, some did it as a joke. None of them had any clue what they were voting for and why (the ones that did it as a joke know why, they just regret it).

I can tolerate people who have different views, I am voluntarily entering into a discussion with you. If I couldn't tolerate you then I wouldn't be here.

Your solutions are just too weak and I've pointed out the flaws in your thinking. If disagreeing with you makes you think that I'm intolerant of you, then that says more about how you view people who are different than it says about me.

I'm not that bitter either, even though the UK after brexit is going to be worse. I know that the time ahead for leavers is going to be much worse than it is for me, I feel sorry for them.

ukcarper

phillw wrote: »

You only think that because you agree with the side who caused it. If the EU agreed a deal that had no detriment to us, but had detriment to the EU then the people in the EU will resent it. Cause enough resentment for long enough and it will cause instability. Whether it's trade wars or actual wars. The whole reason the EU was created was to end resentment that drove the constant wars in europe, which twice turned into world wars.



I know the many reasons why people voted to leave. Some are racist/xenophobic, some were deliberately misinformed by self confesses liar Mr Banks and his friends, some did it as a protest vote, some did it as a joke. None of them had any clue what they were voting for and why (the ones that did it as a joke know why, they just regret it).

I can tolerate people who have different views, I am voluntarily entering into a discussion with you. If I couldn't tolerate you then I wouldn't be here.

Your solutions are just too weak and I've pointed out the flaws in your thinking. If disagreeing with you makes you think that I'm intolerant of you, then that says more about how you view people who are different than it says about me.

I'm not that bitter either, even though the UK after brexit is going to be worse. I know that the time ahead for leavers is going to be much worse than it is for me, I feel sorry for them.

There you or judging people.

You are looking to create problems where solutions could be found that would not impact the single market. Of yes BMW could declare that the load was brake shoes when it was actually potatos but it wouldn't do them much good in the mini factory.

buglawton

Zero_Gravitas wrote: »

...
For UK manufacturers, they have built and set up their factories on the basis that there is fully frictionless trade across the EU - and it's the change that Brexit brings that will be the problem - as per the original article about Honda in Swindon:

(https://www.ft.com/content/8f46b0d4-77b6-11e8-8e67-1e1a0846c475)

Er... yes, change involves change.