Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

ukcarper

mayonnaise wrote: »

Obviously not, as nobody is proposing the new referendum to be a rerun of the 2016 one.

Yes but what will it be, all certainty went out the window when remain lost last Referendum and there is no going back to as it was before.

Thrugelmir

AFF8879 wrote: »

This is a good point. Remain ran such a negative campaign over the referendum

Remain had nothing to be positive about. Tusk's message (via the meeting with Cameron in January 2016) had already set the tone pre referendum. What many people thought was the case, was unequivocally confirmed.

Herzlos

It doesn't matter if a 2nd referendum doesn't produce a remain result (though obviously that's what I want), it just needs to be clear enough to enable Westminster to do something with the result.

ukcarper wrote: »

Me personally I would need to know exactly what staying in EU meant as I don't see us being able to stay in on terms we had

Fair enough, but literally every expert on the matter asserts that we can withdraw A50 and keep the same terms. A50 is a notice of intent to leave, it's not a notice of leaving.


But I've explained that to you dozens of times already.

ukcarper

Herzlos wrote: »

It doesn't matter if a 2nd referendum doesn't produce a remain result (though obviously that's what I want), it just needs to be clear enough to enable Westminster to do something with the result.






Fair enough, but literally every expert on the matter asserts that we can withdraw A50 and keep the same terms. A50 is a notice of intent to leave, it's not a notice of leaving.


But I've explained that to you dozens of times already.

Well if that's the case then they can make that clear and guarantee it and I'd want that from EU commission.

fatbeetle

AFF8879 wrote: »

This is a good point. Remain ran such a negative campaign over the referendum whilst leave, whilst it definitely had its sketchy moments, generally focused on the opportunities Britain may have outside the EU.
.

The remain campaign seemed, and still seems, to consist of calling everyone who disagreed with it childish names.

If you are for Brexit you are obviously a Gammon, "Daily Mail reader", "Little Englander, Tory, bigot, racist, xenophobic, narrow minded, UKIP supporting, vile idiot".

Is it any wonder they lost when their sole technique was utterly negative

Filo25

ukcarper wrote: »

Well if that's the case then they can make that clear and guarantee it and I'd want that from EU commission.

I would imagined that would need to be clarified if "Remain" was being offered as an option before we had a second referendum.

For what its worth I also don't think a second ref would be a guaranteed win for Remain either I think it would be another very tight vote, if the government can't come up with an option better than "No Deal" though I would say a Remain win would probably be a narrow favourite going into the campaign.

Filo25

fatbeetle wrote: »

The remain campaign seemed, and still seems, to consist of calling everyone who disagreed with it childish names.

If you are for Brexit you are obviously a Gammon, "Daily Mail reader", "Little Englander, Tory, bigot, racist, xenophobic, narrow minded, UKIP supporting, vile idiot".

Is it any wonder they lost when their sole technique was utterly negative

It's just as well I have never been called a whinging Remoaner or various other terms of endearment on here then, clearly Leave supporters are far above such things.

By its nature the Remain campaign was probably always going to veer towards negativity, it is difficult to make a massively positive case for the status quo beyond pointing out what you lose if it goes away. The Leave campaign could get away with promising the vague sunny uplands stuff, because there wasn't a clear model for what Leave would look like, even under a "No Deal" there is still very little clarity about what model of immigration policy would be pursued as an example.

It is something the Leave campaign exploited very well, implying cuts to immigration to those groups most concerned by it, and implying increased immigration from outside the EU in a fairer system to others

ukcarper

Filo25 wrote: »

I would imagined that would need to be clarified if "Remain" was being offered as an option before we had a second referendum.

For what its worth I also don't think a second ref would be a guaranteed win for Remain either I think it would be another very tight vote, if the government can't come up with an option better than "No Deal" though I would say a Remain win would probably be a narrow favourite going into the campaign.

I think you could be right but a lot would depend on what remain would be, I also think a deal could be found that could gain enough support depending on FOM and exactly how much control the EU courts would have.

Filo25

ukcarper wrote: »

I think you could be right but a lot would depend on what remain would be, I also think a deal could be found that could gain enough support depending on FOM and exactly how much control the EU courts would have.

I don't think there is going to be anything too "special" being offered in terms of a new deal either inside or outside the EU, you can see the various options out there already in terms of the EU relationships with other nations.

Although there has been a bit of speculation recently that the EU may be looking at tweaking Freedom of Movement rules given some of the issues it is facing on that front in multiple countries at present, I doubt it would be much more than a tweak though. Of course even within freedom of movement rules there is some ability to put some increased controls on EU immigration in place, the UK just chose to never take advantage of them.

Ballard

Filo25 wrote: »

It's just as well I have never been called a whinging Remoaner or various other terms of endearment on here then, clearly Leave supporters are far above such things.

By its nature the Remain campaign was probably always going to veer towards negativity, it is difficult to make a massively positive case for the status quo beyond pointing out what you lose if it goes away. The Leave campaign could get away with promising the vague sunny uplands stuff, because there wasn't a clear model for what Leave would look like, even under a "No Deal" there is still very little clarity about what model of immigration policy would be pursued as an example.

It is something the Leave campaign exploited very well, implying cuts to immigration to those groups most concerned by it, and implying increased immigration from outside the EU in a fairer system to others

Don’t forget that remainers are unpatriotic and voted selfishly for their own good which was against the best interests of the country. Leavers, on the other hand, voted purely for queen and country regardless of how it affected them.