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Brexit the economy and house prices part 6
Comments
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You do understand that being concerned over immigration and racism are not the same thing?
Being concerned about immigration at the levels that we've seen, is xenophobia. Sure if immigration levels were ten times higher, then I'd be concerned because it's a sign that things are falling apart somewhere else.
I wouldn't be concerned that they are here in my country, because that is xenophobia.
The language that was used by people like Nigel Farage during the referendum was xenophobia.
Do you understand that?
Any time you here the words "My" or "Our", it's a sign you're being manipulated.
I'm much more concerned about what the conservatives were up to for the last ten years and what the ERG has been planning to do all these years.
We're at a point now where we know exactly how leave lied and cheated to get the slight majority, but we're being told it's not politically correct to point it out.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/08/vote-leave-racism-brexit-uncivil-war-channel-4
I'm sure some leavers aren't too entrenched that they would actually accept that is what happened. But pretending it didn't happen isn't going to change anything.0 -
Being concerned about immigration at the levels that we've seen, is xenophobia. Sure if immigration levels were ten times higher, then I'd be concerned because it's a sign that things are falling apart somewhere else.
I wouldn't be concerned that they are here in my country, because that is xenophobia.
The language that was used by people like Nigel Farage during the referendum was xenophobia.
Do you understand that?
Any time you here the words "My" or "Our", it's a sign you're being manipulated.
I'm much more concerned about what the conservatives were up to for the last ten years and what the ERG has been planning to do all these years.0 -
So no. .
I understand your point, you're just plain wrong and you can't see it.
The levels of immigration we've seen aren't any reason to leave the EU & anyone who thinks they are isn't considering all the facts. It's as if they are just scared of immigrants.
Unless you can give me an alternative reason why they are solely focused on the numbers of immigrants?
Immigrants from the EU are net contributors to the UK, more of them would therefore contribute more.
They're only here because there is work here for them to do.
Our biggest problem is that other countries were also able to see the way leave behaved and how so many of our population just lapped it up, that they are thinking the same thing. It's going to be hard to persuade the world we aren't xenophobic.0 -
But the "the EU doesn't care about the UK" is a xenophobic argument, because it focuses purely on us vs them and ignores the facts.
The EU is not them though. Macron's recent hand out to placate the unrest in France. Is in direct contravention of the EU's own fiscal rules. With France's economy heading for trouble. Macron is deperately trying to salvage his own head.
Seems as if your imagination is running wild. Rather than following what is actually happening in the real world. That's where the facts are. The tide is going out. Difficult times may well lie ahead.0 -
I understand your point, you're just plain wrong and you can't see it.
The levels of immigration we've seen aren't any reason to leave the EU & anyone who thinks they are isn't considering all the facts. It's as if they are just scared of immigrants.
Unless you can give me an alternative reason why they are solely focused on the numbers of immigrants?
Immigrants from the EU are net contributors to the UK, more of them would therefore contribute more.
They're only here because there is work here for them to do.
Net contribution depends on how you calculate and is far from a accurate statement.0 -
I didn't vote leave but I can see immigration is causing problems in some areas.
Sure, immigration has caused problems because how it's been handled.
As soon as you have integration problems early on then you end up with self segregation which breads xenophobia, in both groups. It's natural and encoded in our DNA.
There are countries that have handled integration much better than we have, the best thing is you get all the celebrations and holidays.
There are studies that show immigrants are happier if they integrate, the problem is often that they don't feel welcome.
Dealing with it would be much more useful than leaving the EU and closing the drawbridge. It's something that New Labour would have poured money into, but all the money disappeared in 2008.Thrugelmir wrote: »The EU is not them though. Macron's recent hand out to placate the unrest in France. Is in direct contravention of the EU's own fiscal rules. With France's economy heading for trouble. Macron is deperately trying to salvage his own head.
Politicians always do. The whole point of the EU's rules is to try to curtail that, for the good of the people. We've been known to contravene the EU's rules too.Thrugelmir wrote: »Seems as if your imagination is running wild. Rather than following what is actually happening in the real world. That's where the facts are. The tide is going out. Difficult times may well lie ahead.
I do follow what is happening in the world. If we're going with water based analogies, the people who jumped off the titanic (in the movie) early got crushed when the boat cracked in two. If ever leaving the EU would be a good idea, now wasn't the time.0 -
Sure, immigration has caused problems because how it's been handled.
As soon as you have integration problems early on then you end up with self segregation which breads xenophobia, in both groups. It's natural and encoded in our DNA.
There are countries that have handled integration much better than we have, the best thing is you get all the celebrations and holidays.
There are studies that show immigrants are happier if they integrate, the problem is often that they don't feel welcome.
Dealing with it would be much more useful than leaving the EU and closing the drawbridge. It's something that New Labour would have poured money into.
I live in an area with high immigration (not EU) and immigrants are generally welcomed but it is causing problems.
What countries do you feel have handled immigration better than U.K.0 -
I voted leave but my vote had little to do with immigration, if we need more immigration then so be it.
However if in many years to come immigration got completely out of control then id like to think we had a sovereign government that could install some form of control....
I am of the belief that people like phil like to accuse leave voters of being racists or xenophobic in some weird attempt to shame us for our decision..."I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather, not screaming in terror like his passengers."0 -
EU allowed Slovakia to tempt Jaguar Land Rover away from UK with £110m state aid pledge
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1070509/Brexit-news-UK-EU-Slovakia-Jacob-Rees-Mogg-Jaguar-Land-Rover-job-latest
So Slovakia received money (where UK contributed) from EU which then they used to bribe a UK business to move jobs out of UK and EU allows that.
Still the remainers argue staying in EU is better for economy.:mad:
We could have done the same thingFew people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are incapable of forming such opinions.0 -
What countries do you feel have handled immigration better than U.K.
I recently celebrated christmas with some Muslims from Mauritias, they told me that back how they celebrate all the different religious festivals back home.However if in many years to come immigration got completely out of control then id like to think we had a sovereign government that could install some form of control....
We actually had the opportunity to do that for both EU and non EU and didn't, "illegal immigration" has increased due to cost cutting (at border force etc).
Leaving the EU so that a future government could do something about immigration that has "got completely out of control" if it ever occurred, is exactly my point.
Parliament has always been sovereign throughout our EU membership. They could always have done something about it.
The EU aren't interested in our moaning about immigration today, because it's not too high. If there was a problem then changes could be made based on the situation as it stood. Our problems are the way we've handled it.
We're being investigated by the UN for living standards, the problems in the UK are our own making.We could have done the same thing
We did do the same thing. The japanese car companies were allowed to build factories on green belt land that was cheap, because you couldn't build on it. It's the only reason they chose the UK when they wanted to build in the EU.0
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