Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

kabayiri

andrewf75 wrote: »

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You say we've been screwed over, but the above logic suggests its by our own recent governments failure to invest all the economic success we've had back into the country.

Yes, it's selfish interest / blatant self interest.

Government gets to grow the economy, whilst deliberately underfunding the poorest regions for an extended period. Things like HS2 wont help that.

So why shouldn't those who feel they have missed out vote to Leave out of pure self interest as well?

I'm not saying it will work for them, but there's a certain logic to the idea they are not happy with the EU status quo.

On newsnight we had a certain Mr Osborne in contrition mode. I think he thought he was in a confessional or something. This is the same bloke talking about "national figures" in the campaign, and completely missing the local arguments.

Thrugelmir

andrewf75 wrote: »

I'm not a supporter of high immigration personally, but in pure economic terms it should be positive.

Nail bars, fast food outlets, food shops (selling imported product), cafes, car washes etc hardly boosting economic activity. As all transient activities. Requiring little investment of a capital nature. Here today gone tomorrow. Where's the wealth creation for the future. Sustainable businesses that will grow and train people to have valued skills.

kabayiri

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Nail bars, fast food outlets, food shops (selling imported product), cafes, car washes etc hardly boosting economic activity. As all transient activities. Requiring little investment of a capital nature. Here today gone tomorrow. Where's the wealth creation for the future. Sustainable businesses that will grow and train people to have valued skills.

What is it? A twenty fold increase in the number of coffee shops in less than 2 decades.

A big recession could wash away many of these.

We are missing the really big challenge entirely. It's the next big push from China to build on it's industrial base and become the major economic player.

For all his faults, Trump does get that there is a power play going on.

Thrugelmir

kabayiri wrote: »

What is it? A twenty fold increase in the number of coffee shops in less than 2 decades.

A big recession could wash away many of these.

We are missing the really big challenge entirely. It's the next big push from China to build on it's industrial base and become the major economic player.

For all his faults, Trump does get that there is a power play going on.

Doesn't require a recession to wash transient businessess away. A tightening of interest rates will suffice, i.e. continued squeeze on disposable incomes.

Stealing of IP is a fundametal issue. Trump's blunt instrument of tariff's seems to be having an impact on the Chinese economy.

andrewf75

kabayiri wrote: »

So why shouldn't those who feel they have missed out vote to Leave out of pure self interest as well?

I'm not saying it will work for them, but there's a certain logic to the idea they are not happy with the EU status quo.

I don't blame them for voting leave at all! Just saying I don't think leaving the EU will help them. It will make things worse.

Agree with your other comment about Trump "getting it"
The Brexit Tories most certainly don't!

kabayiri

andrewf75 wrote: »

I don't blame them for voting leave at all! Just saying I don't think leaving the EU will help them. It will make things worse.
...

Will it really make things worse though? Long term I mean.

The combination of the 2015 GE and the 2016 Brexit vote must have been pretty unsettling for the established political parties.

UK voters have been fairly compliant on the whole. You don't see the extreme right/left politics present in Europe. It must take a lot of provocation for large numbers to vote UKIP, as they did.

Who is to say that the priority for the poorer regions doesnt change?

gfplux

A_Pandiculation wrote: »

I wouldn't normally post here but saw the comments about potholes so with my experiences I thought I would share. If it's not appropriate or not welcome please say.

I have relatives in south-east Luxembourg and visit regularly, usually a couple of times a year.
Luxembourg's roads aren't as always as good as gfplux suggests, both 2013 and 2015 being notable years for the problems caused in Luxembourg. It seems strange to me that gfplux doesn't mention that.

Also we visited in early October. The motorways then from Belgium into Luxembourg (our route of preference) were chaos with Luxembourg papers describing the situation as IIRC being in a third world country. At the same time railway services were disrupted, despite a line that had just reopened after being closed for repairs. From memory some 40,000 Belgian commuters were affected daily for quite a while.

Now I say this not to suggest that by comparison Britain isn't so bad or to divert attention from our Brexit issues. But to wonder why someone would harp on about the state of roads in the UK when roads are poor in lots of places and even the country they live in. It seems strange to me because I certainly wouldn't go onto a Benelux forum of any sort and grumble about anything of theirs, knowing full well that our own is no better.

Berlin for example is like many cities including ours often dirty, and their U-Bahn like Munichs is definitely no cleaner than London's underground. Yes I visit there too. In Berlin there's lots of graffiti and in many places not just the underground there's a pervasive stink of urine. But again it's the same for almost any city so I don't get why anyone would try and suggest one is somehow better than the other when they're in honesty not very different from each other.
So I'm sorry but I just don't get the attempted one upmanship that one road is better than another just because of what country you're in or that realistically it has anything to do with Brexit any way.


Now to lighten the tone and show that Germany does have potholes I will try to post a report from just a few months ago about Germany's most beautiful pothole.
Read it and smile.
https://trans.info/en/the-most-beautiful-pothole-in-germany-a-driver-parked-a-car-above-it-to-save-it-from-being-repaired-101220

If you have followed this thread you should have seen all the EU bashing and diverting the spotlight to everywhere but Britain.
There are problems in every country but this is about Brexit and too many Brexiters want to talk about everything except the advantages of Brexit because there are not many if any.

As a resident of Luxembourg I do not pretend the country is perfect but 150,000 people coming across the border every day to work has definitely caused transport problems as the increase has caught the planners with their pants down and the roads and rail are not keeping up.
I am surprised you had problems coming in from Belgium unless you had not listened to your relatives to not come in at morning rush hour. After morning rush hour(s) the roads are relatively clear (just ask all those People with Luxembourg cars at IKEA in Belgium). The same applies leaving Luxembourg as you will surely have seen (leave at 7am 4 hour drive to catch the noon ferry at Calais) when you left Luxembourg going against the traffic coming into the country
I am retired and not one of those commuters but understand earning a Luxembourg income and spending it across the border is a huge incentive. However that is the reason people commute to work in central London. So the problem is the same but as a remainer I am more interested in hearing about the non existent Brexit bonus.
This is not a thread about the quality of life in the EU27 but Brexiters want it to be as they have nothing positive to post about Brexit.

Thrugelmir

andrewf75 wrote: »

The Brexit Tories most certainly don't!

Let's not forget where Corbyn's own position is, i.e. exit. Labour's tests to agree to whatever deal is agreed. Are little more than a mish mash of undeliverables. A total cop-out. Probably why politics is paralysed at the moment.

kabayiri

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Let's not forget where Corbyn's own position is, i.e. exit. Labour's tests to agree to whatever deal is agreed. Are little more than a mish mash of undeliverables. A total cop-out. Probably why politics is paralysed at the moment.

Corbyn would not be able to implement his socialist plans whilst inside the EU. Particularly, energy reform.

It was Ken Clark, a week or so back, who stated quite matter of factly on the radio just how much a Leaver Jeremy was...and they have known each other a long time.

wunferall

"Germany and Poland want Britain and the European Union to agree on an orderly divorce process over the next few days, Chancellor Angela Merkel said on Friday"
Is this Merkel pushing for a deal before she's pushed out?

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-merkel-poland-brexit/germany-poland-pushing-for-brexit-deal-in-next-few-days-merkel-idUKKCN1N71R6