Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

buglawton

In 1980s UK the M25 opened which transformed travel around the home counties. It was half as busy as today. You can't really compare directly, Germany's motorway construction started in the 1930s and the original roads were still in use in the 80s. Compared to West Germanys wealth (it had raced ahead in the 60s/70s) its motorway network was rather lacklustre. I'd maintain that driving in the UK was much more pleasant and felt safer than Germany. UK service areas however are relentlessly commercial by comparison. Germany has a lot of landscaped picnic areas on it's motorways and A roads. Admittedly we're digressing from Brexit here...

Arklight

StevieJ wrote: »

I don't care what roads are like on the continent, all I know is that UK roads are an absolute disgrace. They have deteriorated drastically over that past few years, presumably pushed to the back of the queue for funds by councils that are now operating on the bare bones of what they need to operate. My guess is that councils have decided that poor roads will create more public reaction than under-spending in other areas, thus more pressure for extra funds from the Govt.

I really noticed how bad the UK's roads are when I returned from a driving holiday in my own car over the summer. I have driven a lot in the US but the experience of driving onto a ferry in England in my own car, and off it in France and back again really underscored how poor our infrastructure is.

I enjoy driving but it's becoming actively unpleasant in England. Often the enormous dip they leave around manholes and grates is worse than the huge potholes that dot the roads and the giant lumps where they've pulled the road up for works and then not replaced it properly.

You can see cars weaving around in front of you trying to avoid the craters that pockmark many roads and it's getting so bad now that even motorways and dual carriageways are crumbling which is really dangerous.

I'm sure the Tories handout to high earners will sort all this out though as they can go and buy more Range Rovers to drive around which will smooth everything out.

Arklight

Cakeguts wrote: »

I find that attitude so weird. My parents built a house in the early 60s on a plot that was sold off along with several others. One of the owners next door who also built their house was an optician. So well off maybe not rich but not poor. Someone though who would be despised because they had some money. After a while they moved and the people who bought the house from them made their money selling foam for upholstery on market stalls. I seem to remember that the second owners had more money than the first. They also later had a shop also selling foam. Completely self made.



So in your world someone who worked hard selling from market stalls would have to support others who had exactly the same opportunity but couldn't be bothered? Why do you think that is fair?

Because there is a segment of society that is only capable of evaluating people's worth based on how much money they have at a given time, which is actually a poor indication of success.

People should be rewarded, encouraged and incentivised for working hard and achieving, which includes company directors and people on the tills.

The problem is that in your world the people on the tills are completely expendable. This appears to be because you don't seem to be able to understand that some people start much further back in the race than others and may have had to slog their guts out to get to a position in life that you would just sneer at because they haven't accumulated much wealth.

Others start well ahead, slack off, and still end up ahead. It's because everyone is different, life isn't fair. and some people who have an enormous talent for making money for themselves are still unpleasant, a bit thick, and shouldn't be in charge of national policy that covers everything from defence to child protection just because they have an opinion on these things and a 9 figure bank balance.

I appreciate this isn't a popular notion among Right Wing supporters.

Rinoa

Arklight wrote: »

I really noticed how bad the UK's roads are when I returned from a driving holiday in my own car over the summer. I have driven a lot in the US but the experience of driving onto a ferry in England in my own car, and off it in France and back again really underscored how poor our infrastructure is.

I enjoy driving but it's becoming actively unpleasant in England. Often the enormous dip they leave around manholes and grates is worse than the huge potholes that dot the roads and the giant lumps where they've pulled the road up for works and then not replaced it properly.

You can see cars weaving around in front of you trying to avoid the craters that pockmark many roads and it's getting so bad now that even motorways and dual carriageways are crumbling which is really dangerous.

I'm sure the Tories handout to high earners will sort all this out though as they can go and buy more Range Rovers to drive around which will smooth everything out.

...and in the real world outside planet Arklight

https://www.thelocal.fr/20180816/potholes-bridges-at-risk-of-collapse-french-roads-in-desperate-state-report-says

Arklight

Rinoa wrote: »

...and in the real world outside planet Arklight

https://www.thelocal.fr/20180816/potholes-bridges-at-risk-of-collapse-french-roads-in-desperate-state-report-says

I think I win by the default of owning a passport and having used it to leave the British Isles at least once in my life, but carry on linking to things from your front room in Chipping Snodbury.

mayonnaise

Instead of anecdotal evidence from little englanders who once spotted a non-existing pothole on a German road they never traveled on, we could look at actual facts and unbiased reports.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/britains-roads-are-worse-than-in-some-poorer-countries-shocking-report-reveals-a3472861.html

Britain’s roads rank worse than Namibia, Malaysia and Ecuador as a shocking new report shows the UK is trailing behind poorer nations for road quality.

The state of the UK’s highways has been revealed to be shoddier than in many other developed nations – including Britain’s European neighbours France, Germany and Spain.

andrewf75

I think anyone in the real world i.e. who has travelled in the countries mentioned extensively would laugh at suggestions that the UK’s roads aren’t worse than those in France, Germany and Spain. They very obviously are.

Although in the case of Spain, my thoughts are why have they spent so much money on the roads when they have such economic problems. They appear to have gone way overboard.

Thrugelmir

andrewf75 wrote: »

Although in the case of Spain, my thoughts are why have they spent so much money on the roads when they have such economic problems. They appear to have gone way overboard.

Well discussed previously. EU funding. Billions wasted on roads to nowhere etc.

Rinoa

mayonnaise wrote: »

Instead of anecdotal evidence from little englanders who once spotted a non-existing pothole on a German road they never traveled on, we could look at actual facts and unbiased reports.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/britains-roads-are-worse-than-in-some-poorer-countries-shocking-report-reveals-a3472861.html

A very interesting report commissioned and paid for by FairfuelUK, who campaign for lower fuel taxes and better roads.

Well that certainly trumps my link to the French Government's report on their ailing infrastructure.

kabayiri

StevieJ wrote: »

I don't care what roads are like on the continent, all I know is that UK roads are an absolute disgrace. They have deteriorated drastically over that past few years, presumably pushed to the back of the queue for funds by councils that are now operating on the bare bones of what they need to operate. My guess is that councils have decided that poor roads will create more public reaction than under-spending in other areas, thus more pressure for extra funds from the Govt.

Look, there are millions more people here now, at a time when we have seen years of cutbacks to local government.

More people -> more demand on infrastructure.

I'm not exactly sure what outcome you were expecting.

When people crow about how all these migrant workers bring billions in, naturally I look at the overcrowded housing; the shocking roads; the pathetic train system; the GP waiting lists; the morale in schools; and I question whether we are being short changed.

The UK never was a priority for the EU. They would rather pump hundreds of billions into the new entrant states. Ironic that millions from those new EU states chose to leave to other Western EU states then.

It's a scr3w up, and Brexit is the result.