Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

ukcarper

Herzlos wrote: »

What problem will letting a 3rd party that's not subject to EU laws collect duty money for the EU? That sounds pretty major, and trust issues aside it's a logistical nightmare and leaves far too much at risk of future deviation/abuse. Then presuambly this means the UK would also be responsible for the customs checks for anything where standards deviate in order to ensure that nothing makes it into the EU that's illegal there.



Would you let Cornwall leave the UK, not follow any UK laws but still collect duty on behalf of the UK?

Yes but everything sounds major to you but I don't see that it is, although it does require a bit of trust which although EU say they want to have a close and friendly relationship they seem to have little of.

I suspect we would treat them a lot better than Spain and EU are treating Catalonia.

Herzlos

ukcarper wrote: »

Yes but everything sounds major to you but I don't see that it is, although it does require a bit of trust which although EU say they want to have a close and friendly relationship they seem to have little of.

Fair enough. I can't say I can agree. We're talking about a huge amount of trust in a 3rd party that actively wants to use different rules and could do anything in the future. Even if you trust the UK government now (which many wouldn't), can you trust every subsequent government?

ukcarper

Herzlos wrote: »

Fair enough. I can't say I can agree. We're talking about a huge amount of trust in a 3rd party that actively wants to use different rules and could do anything in the future. Even if you trust the UK government now (which many wouldn't), can you trust every subsequent government?

The problem is if we reallly want to have a close and friendly relationship we need trust and a certain amount of give and take, that applies to both sides.

.string.

So now we know,

o. Labour will vote against any deal reached with the EU by the Conservative Party.

o. Labour will "insist" on a new Referendum with "Remain" amongst the choices

Clearly the Party's opinion overides the People's opinion•

How very Communist!

scaredofdebt

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

It will cause them the problem of actually agreeing to something. Of actually realising that we are leaving.

You've hit the nail on the head, the problem is agreeing.

Considering our own government can't agree, you can probably see it's hard for 27 different countries to do so.

Thrugelmir

scaredofdebt wrote: »

You've hit the nail on the head, the problem is agreeing.

Considering our own government can't agree, you can probably see it's hard for 27 different countries to do so.

Which results in the matter being fudged. Something the EU are expert at.

buglawton

Lungboy wrote: »

Yes, a customs union. Not the customs union.

http://ukandeu.ac.uk/explainers/eu-turkey-customs-union/

I'm quite happy with the distinction and was aware that the Turkey deal excludes agriculture and services.

So, because we are not an accession-in-waiting we wouldn't qualify for this type of deal. Says which EU principle?

What amazes me is how many bargaining chips the UK has in it's hands compared to Turkey to secure an associate EU membership situation similar to but actually better than the Turkish one. Yet Turkey is sitting there like a dog in a manger and we are supposed to be outside in the cold with a begging bowl.

We really are in a vastly better negotiating position of strength then we realise, which is why I find May's bend-over-backwards-then-fail-anyway approach so dismal.

Carl31

Lornapink wrote: »

So Corbyn wants to take 10% of shares away from shareholders. Most shares are owned by us all via our pensions and ISA's.


Any of you here that has spent years making sacrifice to pay into a pension or equity ISA will thus have 10% of your assets confiscated. Up with the revolution comrades.


Moneysaving?

The labour party should be banned from anything to do with finances - or numbers generally

Herzlos

scaredofdebt wrote: »

You've hit the nail on the head, the problem is agreeing.

Considering our own government can't agree, you can probably see it's hard for 27 different countries to do so.

The EU27 seem to be more in agreement on Brexit than they've ever been on anything in the past - we've spent 2 years trying to find a weak spot and got nowhere.

ukcarper wrote: »

The problem is if we reallly want to have a close and friendly relationship we need trust and a certain amount of give and take, that applies to both sides.

Sure, trust is important, and there should be some trust. But we're talking about the EU trusting the UK to handle all of it's customs/duties for anything coming in via the UK, with no fall back position or oversight. If we stayed within the ECJ then it'd not be an issue, but that's one of our red lines.

So we're expecting the EU to be happy for us to control customs/duty for their border, despite making it clear they won't accept an option which allows the UK to act as a back door into the EU (exactly Mays proposal), whilst the UK has it's own rules with no deference to the EU. The EU would need to give that trust to a 3rd party that doesn't want involved in the EU, is talking about becoming a tax haven and undercutting the EU, and wants there to be no accountability. That wouldn't be acceptable for any other country, so it's obviously not going to be acceptable here.


Like I said before, if you want to see things more objectively, replace "UK" with "Morocco" in any of these discussions.



Small concessions would be something like a waiver for the ETIAS system for any UK citizen for the first 10 years after leaving, or altering the departure schedule, or a modification to one of the hundreds of thousands of terms we've still to settle on.

Herzlos

.string. wrote: »

So now we know,

o. Labour will vote against any deal reached with the EU by the Conservative Party.

o. Labour will "insist" on a new Referendum with "Remain" amongst the choices

Clearly the Party's opinion overides the People's opinion•

How very Communist!

I honestly don't see how another referendum with a "Remain" option is overriding the peoples opinion. If they still want to leave (which polling shows the don't), then people are not going to choose it. If it is a Remain result, then presumably that means the peoples opinion has changed?


What is democracy, if it can't change it's mind?


I agree that it'll be poor form if they automatically reject any proposal because it comes from the Tories. That's unfortunately just politics though, and the converse would be true too. It's also likely because the Tories deal is probably a bad one in the eyes of Labour, but they should be rejecting or amending it on that basis.