Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

Thrugelmir

.string. wrote: »

I don't go along with the idea that the Irish Border is automatically an insoluble problem. As an Engineer, I don't believe in problems that can't be solved.

The border is porous. 3,000 crossing points that's a challenge in itself.

Filo25

The other obvious problem for the EU, is if they give us a mammothly more favourable trade deal compared to those previously given to other countries, then all of their exisitng trade partners are likely to be knocking on the door looking for a renegotiation as well, and of course it will the benchmark for all future third party deals.

Thrugelmir

Filo25 wrote: »

The other obvious problem for the EU, is if they give us a mammothly more favourable trade deal compared to those previously given to other countries, then all of their exisitng trade partners are likely to be knocking on the door looking for a renegotiation as well, and of course it will the benchmark for all future third party deals.

No chance.

EU-Swiss deal STALLS as Brussels REFUSES to make concessions

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1011753/EU-news-switzerland-treaty-referendum-brexit

ukcarper

Herzlos wrote: »

Our broken front doesn't help, but I honestly don't think the EU would be backing down anyway. If they gave us what we're asking it'd be the end of the EU, and as they've said from day 1: no cherry picking.
.

I don't look on that any differently to brexiters red lines.

mrginge

Herzlos wrote: »

No, I said we should be looking into using the existing rules to satisfy leavers that their concerns will be met whilst remaining in the EU. That means addressing their actual concerns and showing how they'll be sorted. Just pointing out that these powers already exist is clearly not sufficient. But since we don't know what the concerns actually are, it's pretty hard to counter.

Let’s just recap what you actually said -

Herzlos wrote: »

FoM with additional brakes or the existing government controls would satisfy almost all of the Leave voters without stuffing our economy, though.

Funny isn’t it. A few days ago when I pointed out that Liam Fox saying a trade deal ‘should’ be the easiest deal ever was not the same as the journalist’s ‘will be’ version, someone started banging on about how it’s all raising expectation and actually the same thing....

You’ve gone the exact opposite way though and started with a definite before backpedalling as fast as your little legs can go to some vague attempt at not saying the clear thing you did actually say.

Keep up the good work herz it’s a real delight.

It's not entirely the press' fault, but they certainly don't help. People have been conditioned to hate the EU over decades of propaganda. Some valid, some not.

Ah the old one-way propaganda argument.
No-one has ever been conditioned to think the EU is great have they. Not anyone, never.
If you don’t like the EU it’s because you’ve been conditioned by propaganda, if you do it’s because, well it’s just because the EU is fantastic!

Honestly I've got no idea.....

Never a truer word was spoken.

Joan_number_1_2

Filo25 wrote: »

The other obvious problem for the EU, is if they give us a mammothly more favourable trade deal compared to those previously given to other countries, then all of their exisitng trade partners are likely to be knocking on the door looking for a renegotiation as well, and of course it will the benchmark for all future third party deals.

Different circumstances so why should it?
All the EU has to say is "Sure, be a paying member with all systems aligned for 45 years and you can have a deal like this too".

Joan_number_1_2

Thrugelmir wrote: »

No chance.



https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1011753/EU-news-switzerland-treaty-referendum-brexit

From what I'm seeing here I feel sure that someone will berate you for using the Express as a source. I've no idea why though when these same objectors seem to rely upon unsubstantiated rumour.

Any way, Reuters reported on the Swiss situation too .... though apparently it is certainly NOT a form of EU attempted bullying, one remainer here told me. :wall:

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-swiss-eu/eu-ratchets-up-pressure-on-swiss-to-clinch-new-treaty-idUKKCN1M20F3

In a nutshell, many Swiss do not want deeper integration with the EU. And they certainly do not want to be an EU member.
Can't imagine why that is.

mrginge

Joan_number_1 wrote: »

In a nutshell, many Swiss do not want deeper integration with the EU. And they certainly do not want to be an EU member.
Can't imagine why that is.

I think it’s because of decades of propaganda.

Thrugelmir

Joan_number_1 wrote: »

From what I'm seeing here I feel sure that someone will berate you for using the Express as a source.

Nice easy read. Not to complex.

phillw

wunferall wrote: »

Don't take that as ignorance that the UK haven't had their moments because I know they have; IMHO though it has often been the result of provocation.

That is prejudice, it's clear that the EU is only responding now after a deluge of provocation from the UK. Both before and after the referendum.

If anything I think they have shown immense restraint. If I were them I'd have told the lot of us to f-off 12 months ago.

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Nice easy read. Not to complex.

If you like your racism and xenophobia nicely wrapped up in populism.

Joan_number_1 wrote: »

Different circumstances so why should it?
All the EU has to say is "Sure, be a paying member with all systems aligned for 45 years and you can have a deal like this too".

Like when you rent a house and ask the landlord to let you live in it rent free because you've been paying for so long and they say yes? Of course, your argument makes no sense.

We get the deal if we pay our tax and align our laws. The money we give to the EU is way less than the cost of not being in the EU. As we don't want to align our laws or pay tax, we don't get a good deal. That was always the case, it was never going to be any different. Why did you think it would be?

ukcarper wrote: »

I'm not sure that people thought they could have all the good parts of EU and none of the bad they just did not want the bad.

So why are they now moaning about the EU not giving us a deal? If they don't want the good then they don't want a deal. I think you're wrong, most people think the Britain deserves the good without the bad.

ukcarper wrote: »

Access to single market is not the same as being in the single market.

The single market is a free trade area, to have access you need to accept free movement of goods, people & capital. Third countries buying from and selling to the EU, do not have "access to the single market". Instead they have quotas and tariffs.

Outside the customs union you have expensive delays and paperwork.

ukcarper wrote: »

The referendum campaign was bad on both sides and many things that have come to light since were not brought up by remain in campaign they preferred to run a scare campaign.

They did bring up a lot of things that got ignored, because the leavers just used a whirlwind of populism to make it impossible for facts to be bought to the voters attention. In fact it got turned into a "we don't want facts, or experts".

It's kind of hard for remain to tell the truth and for it not to be a scare campaign, because the truth is scary. People have a defence against that, you bury your head in the sand and pretend that it's not a real problem. Believe the people who say it will be great, no matter how much they are lying.

The people wanted to be lied to and leave stepped up to it. Leave have admitted they were only interested in saying whatever it would take to get your X on the ballot paper. Remain tried to play fair.