Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

Herzlos

ukcarper wrote: »

I don't look on that any differently to brexiters red lines.

It's not really any different, except the EUs stance doesn't seem to be causing the EU any problems.

Herzlos

mrginge wrote: »

Let’s just recap what you actually said -


Funny isn’t it. A few days ago when I pointed out that Liam Fox saying a trade deal ‘should’ be the easiest deal ever was not the same as the journalist’s ‘will be’ version, someone started banging on about how it’s all raising expectation and actually the same thing....

You’ve gone the exact opposite way though and started with a definite before backpedalling as fast as your little legs can go to some vague attempt at not saying the clear thing you did actually say.

Keep up the good work herz it’s a real delight.

Ah the old one-way propaganda argument.
No-one has ever been conditioned to think the EU is great have they. Not anyone, never.
If you don’t like the EU it’s because you’ve been conditioned by propaganda, if you do it’s because, well it’s just because the EU is fantastic!

Never a truer word was spoken.

I'm not a politician, making a prepared statement or particularly good at English. So I feel the bar is a bit different.

That said; I don't see anything wildly contradictory. Some work would need to be done to help the public understand the details and there's a large difference between "we have powers we don't use" and "we'll actively use our existing powers".

I agree that the existing rules wasn't a convincing argument at the time for whatever reason.

I'm also not saying propaganda is one directional. It obviously goes both ways but we've not had any press in the UK spending 40 years generating outrage at how good the EU is for us, have we?

ukcarper

Herzlos wrote: »

It's not really any different, except the EUs stance doesn't seem to be causing the EU any problems.

Yet, if we leave without a deal in will cause problems for EU. I'm still not convinced that a deal won't be found because brexit seems to be following the normal pattern for EU negotiations.

Thrugelmir

phillw wrote: »

That is prejudice, it's clear that the EU is only responding now after a deluge of provocation from the UK. Both before and after the referendum.

If anything I think they have shown immense restraint. If I were them I'd have told the lot of us to f-off 12 months ago.



If you like your racism and xenophobia nicely wrapped up in populism.



Like when you rent a house and ask the landlord to let you live in it rent free because you've been paying for so long and they say yes? Of course, your argument makes no sense.

We get the deal if we pay our tax and align our laws. The money we give to the EU is way less than the cost of not being in the EU. As we don't want to align our laws or pay tax, we don't get a good deal. That was always the case, it was never going to be any different. Why did you think it would be?



So why are they now moaning about the EU not giving us a deal? If they don't want the good then they don't want a deal. I think you're wrong, most people think the Britain deserves the good without the bad.



The single market is a free trade area, to have access you need to accept free movement of goods, people & capital. Third countries buying from and selling to the EU, do not have "access to the single market". Instead they have quotas and tariffs.

Outside the customs union you have expensive delays and paperwork.



They did bring up a lot of things that got ignored, because the leavers just used a whirlwind of populism to make it impossible for facts to be bought to the voters attention. In fact it got turned into a "we don't want facts, or experts".

It's kind of hard for remain to tell the truth and for it not to be a scare campaign, because the truth is scary. People have a defence against that, you bury your head in the sand and pretend that it's not a real problem. Believe the people who say it will be great, no matter how much they are lying.

The people wanted to be lied to and leave stepped up to it. Leave have admitted they were only interested in saying whatever it would take to get your X on the ballot paper. Remain tried to play fair.

What a load of waffle.

Herzlos

ukcarper wrote: »

Yet, if we leave without a deal in will cause problems for EU. I'm still not convinced that a deal won't be found because brexit seems to be following the normal pattern for EU negotiations.

If we leave with no deal it'll cause Europe problems, but then so would giving us our cake and letting us eat it. They've decided that a hard brexit is preferable to breaking the 4 freedoms or anything that hurts the integrity of the EU.

I doubt they'd blink first; they don't need to back down and they don't want to be seen as weak.

ukcarper

Herzlos wrote: »

If we leave with no deal it'll cause Europe problems, but then so would giving us our cake and letting us eat it. They've decided that a hard brexit is preferable to breaking the 4 freedoms or anything that hurts the integrity of the EU.

I doubt they'd blink first; they don't need to back down and they don't want to be seen as weak.

What real problems would it cause them if they bent a bit.

buglawton

phillw wrote: »

...The single market is a free trade area, to have access you need to accept free movement of goods, people & capital. Third countries buying from and selling to the EU, do not have "access to the single market". Instead they have quotas and tariffs...

So how do you explain Turkey, inside the Customs Union but no FOM?

Herzlos

ukcarper wrote: »

What real problems would it cause them if they bent a bit.

Can you give me example of what they could bend 'a bit' ? We're asking for huge concessions, but the details will depend on what bends.

Lungboy

Turkey aren't inside the customs union. They are similar to what Corbyn kept asking for but being laughed at for suggesting, they have a customs union but aren't in the customs union.

Arklight

buglawton wrote: »

So how do you explain Turkey, inside the Customs Union but no FOM?

Turkey is an accession country that wants to join the EU. Not an have a right wing tantrum, stamp your foot and demand your cake and eat it country. Like England.

Incidentally, Turkey's membership is strongly supported by the UK. Most enthusiastically by David Cameron. Guess he forgot to explain why to the Daily Mail.

But then the Turks are just a bit too brown for some people.