Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

ukcarper

buglawton wrote: »

He must have agreed 100% whith the Chequers proposal then. Closer to May than to Boris.

You would have thought so but he seems to think if he asks to be in (a customs union) or have full access to free movement the EU will forget about it's red lines.

cogito

Herzlos wrote: »

You shouldn't confuse impartiality with EU worship. You try really hard to always frame the EU in the negative, and thus seem outraged at everything they do.

Some look at it at face value and determine that in most instances, the EU is doing exactly what it said it would and exactly what we'd do if we were in it's position.

We asked to be an outsider; so we're being treated just like any other outsider. No special treatment, no need to care about our wellbeing and no reason to harm the EU to keep us happy.

If you ever wonder if what the EU is doing is fair with regard to the UK, just replace UK with any random non-member, like Morocco or Argentina.

I'm not a firm remainer but I'm a pragmatist. I see the benefits of being in the EU on a regular basis, but I'd happily support leaving if there was a satisfactory plan. At this advanced stage, despite the 6 or 7 digits in printing copying and administration, we don't even have a back of envelope plan yet. We can't make any progress because we've no idea what we want to achieve.

Did you not read my post at #1440? If you did you will perhaps agree that we have more in common than you think.

Nevertheless, for one who never has anything positive to say about the UK but accuses me of only ever posting negatively about the EU, your post does strike me as somewhat hypocritical.

Thrugelmir

Filo25 wrote: »

My suspicion is that Labour will end up with the second referendum as their "backstop" if we end up with a deal they deem unsatisfactory (and their conditions are pretty much guaranteed not to be met at present).

We will find out this week anyway, as the conference is likely to determine how things proceed.

From today's news. Corbyn has made his U turn. Labour want an election. Not interested in the broader welfare of the UK population.

Herzlos

cogito wrote: »

Did you not read my post at #1440? If you did you will perhaps agree that we have more in common than you think.

Nevertheless, for one who never has anything positive to say about the UK but accuses me of only ever posting negatively about the EU, your post does strike me as somewhat hypocritical.

I actually agree with #1440. This is all going exactly how it obviously would do.

I'd love to be critical of the EU and less critical of the UK but I've really hot nothing to go on; the EU is doing a good job and Mays team couldn't negotiate a pizza delivery.

ukcarper

Herzlos wrote: »

I actually agree with #1440. This is all going exactly how it obviously would do.

I'd love to be critical of the EU and less critical of the UK but I've really hot nothing to go on; the EU is doing a good job and Mays team couldn't negotiate a pizza delivery.

Can you say specifically what they have done wrong, I'd say they gave away to much early on. The biggest mistake May made was believing polls and calling election.

Joan_number_1_2

buglawton wrote: »

So the EU was formed in 1993 and the UK's population never got to vote on joining?

Neither did the French, the Germans, the Spanish or anybody else.
But the EU is so democratic, don't you know?

We might have had a chance in 2006 but when in 2005 even the French & the Dutch objected to a proposed European Constitution, the EU lightly amended it and called it The Lisbon Treaty. The rest as they say is history.

Filo25

ukcarper wrote: »

Can you say specifically what they have done wrong, I'd say they gave away to much early on. The biggest mistake May made was believing polls and calling election.

Nothing wrong with her calling the election, it looked easy to get a big majority, but running the most awful election campaign i have ever seen put an end to that

ukcarper

Filo25 wrote: »

Nothing wrong with her calling the election, it looked easy to get a big majority, but running the most awful election campaign i have ever seen put an end to that

I agree they ran a bad campaign but it also shows you shouldn't put too much faith in polls.

Thrugelmir

ukcarper wrote: »

I agree they ran a bad campaign but it also shows you shouldn't put too much faith in polls.

Is that what Corbyn is hoping for? A better outcome than the polls suggest. Given his general lack of appeal to the wider electorate. Like the USA neither Trump or Clinton were inspiring looking in from the outside.

Herzlos

ukcarper wrote: »

Can you say specifically what they have done wrong, I'd say they gave away to much early on. The biggest mistake May made was believing polls and calling election.

Calling a referendum with no idea what one of the options means
Calling a snap general election to strengthen a majority and losing it, requiring DUP support.
Triggering A50 with no idea what to do with it.
Defining red lines that give you no options.
Being unprepared at every stage.
Trying to play the EU separating game.
Repeatedly making proposals to the EU that were clearly not suitable, which would be obvious if any preparation was done
Making Boris Johnson foreign secretary.
Nor checking that Davis had actually done any work.
Trying to keep both wings of the party on side despite contradictory requirements.

There's probably plenty more but that's just off the top of my head.

Can you think of anything they've done right? At the moment I've got nothing.

Farage did a cracking job of shorting Sterling for his friends to make money. That was well executed despite being a horrible thing to do. Cameron also managed to fairly successfully kill off UKIP.