Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

Tromking

Herzlos wrote: »

We have no direction or mandate, so we really need a 2nd referendum to get some inertia behind *something* and to let us progress.

What mandate are you seeking?

Moby

Lornapink wrote: »

Time to sack May and go forward with either Canada+ or WTO. Hammond ought to be positing slashing corporation tax. The £39bn needs to come off the table.

I see Chuka Ummuna has spent last few days in Salzburg colluding with EU to engineer a second referendum. I struggle to think of any more devious an action.

I think the tide has turned on Remain big time, I had radio on in background all day yesterday and heard one Remainer after another declaring they're now a Leaver due to EU's attitude. Who wants to be part of a club like that?

A combative Macron accused British Brexiters of lying about how easy it would be to negotiate an exit from the EU on terms favourable to the UK.


In the words of Macron:-




“Those who explain that we can easily live without Europe, that everything is going to be alright, and that it’s going to bring a lot of money home are liars,” said Macron. “It’s even more true since they left the day after so as not to have to deal with it.”


Clear enough for you Lorna?
The tide is actually going in the opposite direction by the way!
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-labour-back-second-referendum-gain-power-general-election-polls-a8547676.html

Moby

Tromking wrote: »

I agree with most of this. Brits don't take well to their leaders being humiliated in the fashion TM was yesterday, even someone as intrinsically useless as she is.
I sense a growing anger and impatience among the public that the negotiations are going badly and sooner or later something has to give.
The machinations in Salzburg yesterday reminded me just why I voted to get out of the bloody EU in the first place, unelected Eurocrats pontificating about and on one occasion trolling our elected leader on social media, and in the case of the terminally domestically unpopular Macron, engaging in a bit gallic Brit baiting, always a go to tactic when a French President is tanking in the polls at home.
Time to go.

I sense a growing awareness in the public that brexit is a complete disaster. I share the humiliation bit regarding May but I don't personally feel humiliated because I told you so! Brexiteers thought the British could split the EU....it was about to crumble....it would be so easy to get a great deal blah blah!
Complete rubbish. We were fed lie after lie after lie. You talk about EU machinations....what about the machinations that got us here, what about the machinations in the tory party? Some of us knew this would happen and now you'll see the grim reality as we are cold shouldered and pushed to the fringes of decision making in the future. The Winston Churchill Empire nonsense is simply the long dead dream of older generations who have lost touch with reality. Our writ in Europe doesn't run that far anymore! May goes to South Africa and dances like a stork on a hot plate for her trade deals, deals that are miniscule compared to what we are letting go of. It really is puerile self harm. Welcome to the future!

ukcarper

Moby wrote: »

I sense a growing awareness in the public that brexit is a complete disaster. I share the humiliation bit regarding May but I don't personally feel humiliated because I told you so! Brexiteers thought the British could split the EU....it was about to crumble....it would be so easy to get a great deal blah blah!
Complete rubbish. We were fed lie after lie after lie. You talk about EU machinations....what about the machinations that got us here, what about the machinations in the tory party? Some of us knew this would happen and now you'll see the grim reality as we are cold shouldered and pushed to the fringes of decision making in the future. The Winston Churchill Empire nonsense is simply the long dead dream of older generations who have lost touch with reality. Our writ in Europe doesn't run that far anymore! May goes to South Africa and dances for her trade deals, deals that are minescule compared to what we are letting go of. Welcome to the future!

The polls don't reflect that there is a small majority for remain which has just narrowed.

buglawton

There is a fork in the 2nd referendum call.
- Some hope to reverse the entire Brexit vote
- Some hope to have the actual deal voted on by the public

Here's the rub: We were already offered a false choice on referendum #1 but never mind, people gave their rough verdict. Were a 2nd referendum on matter of the exit deal to be called, what's to say we wouldn't one again get presented with a bogus either/or? e.g. 'ludicrous Chequers' or 'horrible WTO'?

Filo25

Lornapink wrote: »

Time to sack May and go forward with either Canada+ or WTO. Hammond ought to be positing slashing corporation tax. The £39bn needs to come off the table.

I see Chuka Ummuna has spent last few days in Salzburg colluding with EU to engineer a second referendum. I struggle to think of any more devious an action.

I think the tide has turned on Remain big time, I had radio on in background all day yesterday and heard one Remainer after another declaring they're now a Leaver due to EU's attitude. Who wants to be part of a club like that?

Canada can't be done without an agreement on the NI border at present, not much sign of that changing greatly at present.

Filo25

buglawton wrote: »

Interesting point there, now I truly wonder how the ECJ applies to Turkey regarding human rights.

Anyway, looks like May picked the wrong red lines.

For Turkey its deal was designed as a stepping stone in, for the UK it would be the stepping stone out.

May's massive mistakes in all of this were not understanding how much she was tying her own hands with her redlines and then botching the 2017 GE campaign so badly that she is dependant on DUP support and a hostage to the extremes in her party, which gives her no real negotiating room over anything relating to NI.

buglawton

Moby wrote: »

...
The tide is actually going in the opposite direction by the way!
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-labour-back-second-referendum-gain-power-general-election-polls-a8547676.html

A GE that would give Labour an opportunity pre-Brexit deadline?
Fat chance!

Filo25

buglawton wrote: »

A GE that would give Labour an opportunity pre-Brexit deadline?
Fat chance!

I don't see any way May will be calling another GE no matter how deadlocked the whole Brexit issue becomes, not with the polls the way they are at present.

If things become truly desperate for her another referendum is a way to effectively bypass a deadlocked parliament, damaging for her but not as much as risking her government, I'm not sure another GE would yield a massively different outcome anyway

Herzlos

Tromking wrote: »

What mandate are you seeking?

Literally anything that someone can call clear with a straight face. Whether that's some clear majority in favour of any of the deals/options available to us. Ideally with something like a Single Transferable Vote to avoid the results being a dead draw between however many options we have, again.