Some questions and a check of CEL defence

Tintin27

I have recieved the hearing date which is 10 decemeber. End date is 12 november. And here is my drafted WS:

In the County Court at XXXXX
Claim No. XXXXX
Between:
Civil Enforcement Ltd (Claimant)
and
xxxxxxx(Defendant)

Witness statement

1. I am NAME, of ADDRESS, POSTCODE, the defendant in this matter, and keeper of vehicle REGISTRATION. I will say as follows:

2. On DATE, the driver and passenger, parked in the car park of SURGERY, where the passenger (the patient) had an appointment at TIME.

3. Upon receipt of a parking charge notice from the claimant, days after I went to the surgery to explain what had happened. The receptionist told me there was nothing that could be done.

4. Following the claimants letter to take court action, I went back to the surgery to discuss the matter further with the Practice Manager, who said that the PCN could have been wiped had I of come shortly after receiving it. Upon explaining to her that I had done that but had been given the wrong information, she provided me with a letter of proof showing dates and times of appointments on the day of the PCN see Exhibit A.

5. At this stage the surgery claim they are unable to help now but have shown that they support my appeal and believe there is no legitimate interest in penalising me see Exhibit B

6. It is my position that, the claimant has no standing, or cause of action, to litigate in this matter.

7. I invite the Court to dismiss this claim in its entirety, and to award my costs of attendance at the hearing, such as are allowable pursuant to CPR 27.14.

Statement of Truth
I believe that the facts stated in this Witness Statement are true.
Signature

Date


* When sending copies of all documents to the court do i need to resend my defence again? And isit it best to email my docs to cel or send them by post? My two letters from the surgery is all the evidence i have do you think thats enough?

Coupon-mad

had I of come shortly after receiving it

''had I of''? That's not English...

You have written nothing about the hidden signs, no terms prominently displayed that could have been seen (outside or inside) about registering a VRN, etc.

KeithP

Point 6 in your Defence is a quite lengthy discussion about signs, yet your Witness Statement doesn't mention signs at all.

Tintin27

Okay So iv put in some information about signs but the problem I have is that I believe the signs now have changed to when the pcn was issued. Im positive that the signs are newer now and there are more of them then there was before. the surgery states that they've always been the same. I had a look on google earth and they are different, theres fewer signs an no sign at the entrance at all but this was pictured in 2014 and the pcn was issued 2017. So im unsure about what I can really say here? my new drafted witness statement is below:

In the County Court at XXXXX
Claim No. XXXXX
Between:
Civil Enforcement Ltd (Claimant)
and
xxxxxxx(Defendant)

Witness statement

1. I am NAME, of ADDRESS, POSTCODE, the defendant in this matter, and keeper of vehicle REGISTRATION. I will say as follows:

2. On DATE, the driver and passenger, parked in the car park of SURGERY, where the passenger (the patient) had an appointment at TIME.

3. There was not adequate signage in the carpark. The signs state ‘Medical Centre Permit Holders Only’ but from inside the car the signs were not clear on how to obtain a permit due to the size of the font, see Exhibit A. As the driver waited in the car for the patient, the driver did not see the signs inside the surgery. There are no signs stating about the use of VPRN cameras or debt collection additional charge.

3. Upon receipt of a parking charge notice from the claimant, days after I went to the surgery to explain what had happened. The receptionist told me there was nothing that could be done.

4. Following the claimants letter to take court action, I went back to the surgery to discuss the matter further with the Practice Manager, who said that the PCN could have been wiped if I had of came shortly after receiving it. Upon explaining to her that I had done that but had been given the wrong information, she provided me with a letter of proof showing dates and times of appointments on the day of the PCN see Exhibit B.

5. At this stage the surgery claim they are unable to help now but have shown that they support my appeal and believe there is no legitimate interest in penalising me see Exhibit C

6. It is my position that, the claimant has no standing, or cause of action, to litigate in this matter.

7. I invite the Court to dismiss this claim in its entirety, and to award my costs of attendance at the hearing, such as are allowable pursuant to CPR 27.14.

Statement of Truth
I believe that the facts stated in this Witness Statement are true.
Signature

Date

Tintin27

also should I mention about the copy of the contract agreement I received from the surgery which says its between the surgery and Creative (Contracts) Car park ltd, not CEL??

Tintin27

***I ment ANPR cameras sorry! In their WS it states that "there were many visible displayed in the carpark which explained the terms and conditions of parking. These signs were clear and visible for all drivers to see, and the carpark had suffiecient lighting and warnings for the defendant to have acknowledged the signs. please see attached EXHIBIT 1 (copy of sign). it is abundantly clear that the contract terms relating to charges are a core term." and at the back of the WS it says WITNESS STATEMENT OF ******* EHIBIT 1 but theres no picture?

Coupon-mad

Tintin27 wrote: »

also should I mention about the copy of the contract agreement I received from the surgery which says its between the surgery and Creative (Contracts) Car park ltd, not CEL??

Yes.

at the back of the WS it says WITNESS STATEMENT OF ******* EXHIBIT 1 but theres no picture?

Mention that in your Witness Statement, tear holes in theirs!

I hope you are not late filing & serving your evidence? When's the hearing?

Tintin27

Its just that someone mentioned that CEL will have a contract with creative contracts carpark??? Il put it in anyway!

The end date for evidence is the 12 November so i want to finalise my WS and get it all sent off tonight or tomorrow. Hearing date is 10 December. Does my WS sound ok sofar??

Tintin27

Final Witness Statement below please comment on any adjustments as I would like to send it off asap.
In the County Court at XXXXX
Claim No. XXXXX
Between:
Civil Enforcement Ltd (Claimant)
and
xxxxxxx(Defendant)

Witness statement

1. I am NAME, of ADDRESS, POSTCODE, the defendant in this matter, and keeper of vehicle REGISTRATION. I will say as follows:

2. On DATE, the driver and passenger, parked in the car park of SURGERY, where the passenger (the patient) had an appointment at TIME.
3. There was not adequate signage in the carpark. The signs state ‘Medical Centre Permit Holders Only’ but from inside the car, the signs were not clear on how to obtain a permit due to the size of the font, see Exhibit A. As the driver waited in the car for the patient, the driver did not see the signs inside the of surgery. There are no signs stating about the use of ANPR cameras recording entry and exit times.

4. Upon receipt of a parking charge notice from the claimant, days after I went to the surgery to explain what had happened. The receptionist told me there was nothing that could be done.

5. Following the Claimants letter to take court action, I went back to the surgery to discuss the matter further with the Practice Manager, who said that the PCN could have been wiped if I had of came shortly after receiving it. Upon explaining to her that I had done that but had been given the wrong information, she provided me with a letter of proof showing dates and times of appointments on the day the PCN was issued, see Exhibit B.

6. At this stage the surgery claim they are unable to help now but have shown that they support my appeal and believe there is no legitimate interest in penalising me see Exhibit C

7. I have received a copy of the carpark contract agreement from the surgery, see Exhibit D, which states it is an agreement between, SURGERY and Creative Carpark LTD. Therefore, it is believed Civil Enforcement do not hold a legitimate contract at this carpark.

8. In the Claimants witness statement it states that the signs were clear and visible to see, yet they have failed to provide photographic evidence of this.

7. It is my position that, the claimant has no standing, or cause of action, to litigate in this matter.

8. I invite the Court to dismiss this claim in its entirety, and to award my costs of attendance at the hearing, such as are allowable pursuant to CPR 27.14.

Statement of Truth
I believe that the facts stated in this Witness Statement are true.
Signature

Date

Coupon-mad

How about a bit more here:

As the driver waited in the car for the patient, the driver did not see and could not have known about any signs or keypad inside the surgery, and the Claimant has shown no evidence that drivers were properly alerted to the unexpected terms.

7. It is my position that, the Claimant has no standing, or cause of action, to litigate in this matter and further, even if this Claimant shows they had a contract with the NHS Surgery, the regime was not an understandable ingredient of a parking enforcement regime supported by any legitimate interest, and as such, this case is distinguished from Beavis.

Then add something about the NHS Car Parking Principles:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/74879432#Comment_74879432

and attach them as evidence too and cite them (like in that poster's defence, but in your WS).