Some questions and a check of CEL defence

Coupon-mad

Tintin27 wrote: »

HELPPP! i recieved CELs WS a few weeks back, following them recieving mine, today iv recieved a different one from them!

Their new one has more detail and lots of photos.(which their original one didnt) there new one attacks things said in my defence and my WS. How are they able to wait for mine then write up a new one???

Theyve included photos of all the signs and positions, a log of car registrations who obtained a permit that day and a few of the letters they sent which were ignored. What can i say about the ignored letters??

They also mentioned that the drivers name and address was not known and i was invited to provide them with the name ect within 28days, which is not true in none of their letters does it mention this.

And they are still giving me a chance to pay £100 in full and final settlement within 7days instead of £322..... All my stuff has been sent off now.

Wow, so they are sending an 'offer' to settle at £100 and under cover of that, they have ambushed you with a whole host of new evidence that they failed to adduce with their actual WS?

Or...is THIS their (even later than yours!) first actual Witness Statement and evidence pack?

What you are referring to as their 'first' WS might have been the flimsy one they send to people early on (you said 'weeks ago') before the claim was even allocated to the local court? That was not their WS and evidence.

Why do you think you will lose?

Tintin27

It was allocated to my local court on the 10 august and they sent me a WS on the 29 August i must admit it doesnt look as formal as the second one theyve sent me but it does say its their WS (also this was before theyd payed the court fee). I find it unfair that theyve drew up a new one clearly based on seeing mine! I guess its their photos of all the signs including a sign at the surgery entrance saying 'permit holders only' that makes me feel i could loose... what do you think i should do carry on taking it to court?

Coupon-mad

Of course you carry on.

In your notes for the hearing, have as your first point, a question for their rep to explain why their SECOND WS should be allowed, because you object to it, given the fact they already filed & served a first one. Have 3 copies with you of the first one to hand out to the Judge & rep...and ask the Judge to strike out their second WS as they cannot ambush you with this late, having waited till they saw yours.

That would strike out all of the evidence with it, as it was late and a second WS is not allowed - and they should know better.

Tintin27

Ok i will do that, what other sort of things should be included in my notes? Im so worried about the thought of having to pay £300+ within a month(so it doesnt affect my credit which is good) as im a single mother of 2 currently not in work, all right before christmas. Lets hope i get a nice judge!

Coupon-mad

There is no way you pay over £300 for one PCN, unless you are not clued up on how to object to the added sums.

And it's not difficult to get your head around what to say to the Judge about their added 'costs' being an abuse of process - basically most of the add-ons are made up. They never paid £60 to any debt collector and cannot claim for damages, as your defence says.

The Beavis case (the Supreme Court decision and authority of these cases) confirmed that ParkingEye could only charge and recover the £85, no additional sums and certainly not 'damages' or indemnity costs in addition to that sum.

This was held to be because they were not the landowner, so could not claim ''damages or loss'', and because the £85 already included a significantly large sum in profit, as an automated parking regime costs about £15 for all the letters and involves no human intervention or extra work, and even if it did, the £100 more than comfortably covers everything.

And the POFA Sch4 tells you that the only sum recoverable from a registered keeper is the sum on the Notice to Keeper (because Parliament knew that the inflated 'penalty' already more than covers everything and cannot have more costs added as if the parking firm has suffered loss, because they haven't).

All of the above is only needed to know if you feel the case might be lost on the day. It is your safety net to stop the sum being a stupid amount. £100 PCN plus £50 for two court fees is all it should be, if lost. And no added 'legal costs' either because the C has not used a solicitor to supervise the case, and has its own remunerated in house team, purely involved in admin which cannot be claimed.

Again, you need to be confident of winning the case, first and foremost, and certainly one way would be to go armed with the first WS and object to the second, late one, and say the C should not be grated 'relief from sanctions' and the second WS & late evidence 'ambush attempt' should be disallowed.

Tintin27

Thanks so much for your help coupon-mad id be lost with out it!!

Tintin27

Looking through the letter they sent me with there 2nd WS and it says amount claimed £322.17 and theyl be forced to incur further legal costs for preparation, attendance and travel which theyl seek to recover at the upcoming hearing.

The date on their 2nd WS is 22/11/2018, the end date for WS and evidence was 12/11/18, i sent mine off on the 08/11/2018. Their new one should definately be disallowed! Just wondering how does the whole court thing work in regards to speaking? how do i bring this up? Do i wait for the judge to talk to me first im completely clueless

Coupon-mad

Looking through the letter they sent me with there 2nd WS and it says amount claimed £322.17 and theyl be forced to incur further legal costs for preparation, attendance and travel which theyl seek to recover at the upcoming hearing.

They lied. They cannot keep whacking more costs on, at all.

The PCN is £100 - no damages or 'costs' were incurred on top - and the 2 court fees (to file the claim, and the hearing fee) are £25 each, maybe less, to a firm of solicitors with a direct route to paying fees in bulk. I believe they pay a cheap rate...

You are only ''clueless'' because you haven't read enough court reports!

Search the forum for:

another one bites the dust

and change the default ADVANCED search to SHOW RESULTS AS POSTS. Then read people's reports on how much they had to say.

Tintin27

Update: recieved letter from CEL giving notice that they wont be attending the hearing but a rep from the company or Counsel will be attending on their behalf. Is this good news for me?? And their schedule of costs, general file attendance £45.00, preparing for hearing £65.00, Counsel attending court, time travel and costs £200 Total £310.00. Are they seriously asking this on top of their £330 claim what a joke lol! Well hearings on monday any last words of advice?

KeithP

This video may help:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=n93eoaxhzpU