Money Moral Dilemma: Should I charge my tenant for damage?

tain

takman wrote: »

But your are assuming they went to use the hob and were unsure of what they were doing and then tried several times to make it work.
The most likely scenario is they simply turned it on as you would a normal hob and the damaged occurred, not expecting that you need to remove something first.

Sorry, but just saying this is 'the most likely scenario' doesn't make it so. I would say this is very much an unlikely scenario.

The manufacturers don't make these things to break just beyond general light usage. If they did, you'd be sending that hob straight back under warranty.

marliepanda

tain wrote: »

Sorry, but just saying this is 'the most likely scenario' doesn't make it so. I would say this is very much an unlikely scenario.

The manufacturers don't make these things to break just beyond general light usage. If they did, you'd be sending that hob straight back under warranty.

The most likely scenario is this is made up and is helping nobody.

We can argue about what type of hob it is and what the tenant did all day, we don't know because its either a) made up or b) the person who can provide this info won't

No point

newwiseman

If you did not draw attention to this important instruction and it was not a blatantly requirement obvious requirement for use, then no the tenant should not pay.

takman

tain wrote: »

Sorry, but just saying this is 'the most likely scenario' doesn't make it so. I would say this is very much an unlikely scenario.

The manufacturers don't make these things to break just beyond general light usage. If they did, you'd be sending that hob straight back under warranty.

If the cap is designed to only be used when its turned off then suddenly subjecting it to several hundred degrees by simply turning the hob on could quite easily damage them.

If the person has gone to the hob and has fiddled around trying different things to make it work without asking then yes they should pay for the damage. But if that's the case then this isn't a dilemma at all and everyone would agree they should pay.

But we will never know as its all made up and really a complete waste of time even discussing it!

tain

robatwork wrote: »

You can't a) call someone a troll based on what Marliepanda has posted or b) say NO ONE benefits.

I benefited from her post.

But perhaps I am another troll whose opinion isn't valid.

Nobody has anything against a real MMD that isn't as obviously spurious as this one. This however has as much chance being a real MMD as finding WMD in 2003 Iraq.

As we know that none of you have a clue if these are real or not, or even have a clue how many MMD's are received a week, then we can just put this down to a moot point. You haven't a clue, so we'll stop making assumptions based on that. Because ranting on based on an assumption that no one has a clue about, and not even contributing to the conversation in question, is trolling. Start a new thread if that's what you want to discuss.

tain

takman wrote: »

If the cap is designed to only be used when its turned off then suddenly subjecting it to several hundred degrees by simply turning the hob on could quite easily damage them.

If the person has gone to the hob and has fiddled around trying different things to make it work without asking then yes they should pay for the damage. But if that's the case then this isn't a dilemma at all and everyone would agree they should pay.

But we will never know as its all made up and really a complete waste of time even discussing it!

It would be a point in question to discuss. If I was a landlord and said my tenant needed to pay for it, then they argued that they weren't responsible as they hadn't been shown... Well, here we are!

There are plenty of caveats that we're unaware about, but none of them aren't worth discussing as they are all realistic situations. Especially as there are hundreds if not thousands of landlords out there who have absolutely no idea what their obligations are and what they can/cannot charge for.

need_an_answer

tain wrote: »

Seriously find better things to do with your time. There is no point to your post other than trolling.

Discussing the limits of liability within a rented property is an excellent discussion to be had, and probably applies to hundreds of people who use these forums.

As with all the MMD's they are not revisited by the MSE team member who starts them so important information is never included in the original text or later.
I understand that these dilemmas can have a good discussion on some of the other boards however they don't always work that well on the housing board simply because there are differences between tenants,lodgers or indeed children who pay "rent/housekeeping"

Marliepanda is no more a troll than the next person,simply pointing out that sometimes the terminology to describe a situation or person by those who have little understanding of the legal difference is crucial to the correct advice being given.

This board has many genuine posts daily and really doesn't need a flash mob injection from readers of the MMd's

if it wasn't for the fact that the OP's of these MMD's have an MSE name I suspect that the manner in which they post and run could also be likened to the activity of a troll!

I am no troll either before you ask or accuse ,I am a LL of several properties with rent paying tenants.
I don't have lodgers but I do have an almost adult offspring who lives at home when not studying at university and they neither pay rent nor housekeeping/board and lodge.

So with that in mind I would hope you see the LL's that post here not as LL's who have "no idea of their obligations or what they can charge for" many here offer excellent advice and know exactly the business we are part of take our legal obligations very seriously

The sooner these MMD's are given their own sub board by the forum the better.


Many of the threads started on the housing board can actually be answered very easily because they simply do not require discussion,the answers can be found in several set places and usually take the form of asking the poster to first either confirm the type of tenancy they have,read the tenancy agreement they have or in cases of deposit dispute raise a objection and counter claim.

Other areas where a poster could be directed to are a series of threads constructed by a regular poster GM who has listed many factual pointers regarding housing queries across the spectrum.

With these resources I believe a poster will get a definitive answer regarding their query or be asked to supply some more information.

Where the MMD scenario gets very confusing is the majority of the posters have just opinions rather than clear factual knowledge on a subject,this works well if you are debating whether mrs a should leave mr b on the families thread but it doesn't always translate through well when you ask a slightly ambiguous question regarding housing and then don't return with additional information if needed.


Possibly many of the MMD followers probably thought post 2 by smodlet was abrupt and not in the spirit of an MMD but actually it is the most clear and concise piece of advice on this thread.Not all tenancy agreements are the same and it is perfectly correct that the first thing you should do is check your agreement for the wording regarding damage and responsibility.

You may wish to fill 100 pages with personal view and discussion on the topic and interject it with accusations of trolling against regular posters on the housing boards but its not going to help anyone to obtain good clear advice if genuinely needed.

Happy to continue this on PM so as not to detract from the other threads on the first page allowing this thread to fade.

Davesnave

Great post need an answer.


Me, I'm just inclined to "let the Wookie win!"

Alantheaged

Interesting one. It does depend on the contract but, morally at least, I would put you as at least half to blame - not everyone has sufficient knowledge to understand what others would see as common sense.


However, on the same note, my daughter recently moved flat and asked for her deposit back. We live and learn, but she didn't ask for or attend a final survey before leaving. The landlord then tried to deduct £517. The list included eg repairing hole in wall where sticky hook had been removed: £25!!!! The killer was actually: cost of professional clean: £252. Nevertheless, the help of the Deposit Protection Scheme people was enlisted and reduced the TOTAL amount to £168.10.


Moral: ALWAYS insist on a final survey before giving the keys back and ensure that the request is in writing and you record any response AND take loads of photographs so you have detailed evidence of the condition you left it in.



And be VERY careful of the estate agents small print: hers contained a hidden beauty which meant she was liable for the estate agents fees still to be paid by the landlord as she left before the minimum contract time (she had been there 3 and a half years and thought, reasonably, that after the first year she was on a rolling 2 month notice. Noooo! - the landlord/estate agent insisted on a new contract annually so she was still on the hook for a guaranteed period - 7 months minimum PLUS 2 months notice. Force of circumstances meant she had to leave after 7 months so the landlord insisted she pay the estate agents fees for the remaining 2 months to be released "early" from the contract. This was £375. Because she had signed the contract, there was nothing she could do but pay up. It meant the estate agent was effectively paid twice for the same period as the new tenants would also pay the fee for that period through the landlords rent. Whilst the dispute with the agent is still open, I cannot see any way of getting that money back.



SO, if you rent, the estate agent may send you a letter saying that your tenancy finishes on a particular date, ie at the end of the contracted 12 months (my daughter got this within a week of signing the original agreement which should have had alarm bells ringing). They may then send you a further letter, closer to the date, reminding you that your tenancy is ending then and ask if you want to carry on past that date. If you say yes, they then send you a new contract (or a "variation" which is the same thing) for a further 12 months. Their aim is to catch you as they did my daughter. The only way around it is to say no and look for somewhere else. Despite the expense and upheaval, on balance my daughter would have been better off doing this but hindsight is so easy.


So be very aware - there are some landlords/estate agents after your money in any way possible, fair or not!

Honeylife

I am a LIL (Live in Landlord) of many years and only take students as I live 10 mins from a large Uni.

The Lodger is a stranger in your house and wont know how you run/organise/arrange/set up etc yet. Lodgers are different to Tenants because its your house and you see damage to your stuff instantly and you want others to have the same sense of care as you do.

I had a student who washed her clothes by hand and draped them all over the wardrobe doors and the back of the small sofa in her room to dry. This warped the doors and left water marks on the sofa back and arms. Although I had shown her how to use the w.m., she couldnt remember and so found her own solution. I assumed, like my other students, that she would bring her own clothes airer. Subsequently I wrote in basic English how to turn the w.m. on/off explained the eco wash, the extra spin and bought a clothes airer for the room. I also had a towel rail (not hook) fitted to the back of the bedroom door so again no lodgers draped damp towels over the wardrobe doors.

I suggest write a list of House Notes - yes Notes not Rules. Include how to turn the cooker on and off along with any other "obvious to you" items. My House notes are a mixture of Inventory, wifi password, local bus, hot water/central heating times, nearest GP practice, how to use the fire extinguisher, how to use the Oven, visitors etc. In a folder (14 font double space) and we read them together on arrival. And still there is always someone who does something that floors me. One girl went out and repeatedly left the window wide open all the time. Besides the safety bit, it occasionally would rain and the floor (laminate) under the window would be wet when she returned. It destroyed it. I did charge her for damage. Then subsequently added that to my House Notes "Please do close the window when you leave the house"

Occasionally I get a student who says "this is all common sense isnt it?", and I gently explain its as a result of many years of misunderstandings, assumptions and niggles.

I learnt as I went along. Minor damage. Suck it up and move on. You have to have a contingency fund breakages and damages. This piece of equipment should not be charged for but I would discuss it and see if an monetary offer is made to replace.