PPI Reclaims not covered by the FOS

ih8banx

I'll do that, thx

ih8banx

I have read the article on voidable and unenforceable loans. I have already addressed he point of the contract being unenforceable due to the mis-selling of the PPI, but Black Horse has not changed their tune at all. I figured I had made progress when they apologised for me being mislead and then reminded me that I had signed that I had understood. Er, I signed that I understood what they had mislead me to believe.

The FLA have done NOTHING. I'm thinking of complaining about them!

homer_j_3

Why do you understand it to be unenforceable? This may help me to understand where you may be going wrong?

ih8banx

Hi Homer,

The reason it is unenforceable is because of the mis-selling of the PPI based on a) it being a single-premium policy and b) it being sold to a self-employed person. As the single-premium policy is on the contract for the loan, it would make the whole contract null and void (in Utopia...). I think my understanding of this is correct, can u confirm?

The defence that Black Horse has come up with is laughable and there is no way it can be disproven , except to apply logic. They said that their salesperson handed us a pamphlet describing the insurance, waited until we had read it, and then produced the paperwork for us to sign. I asked them for CCTV footage of this - which they ignored.

ih8banx

sorry... I should have added that another rule I have relied on heavily in my correspondence is that as my complaint has to do with an insurance product, and it is the responsibilty of the salesperson to ensure that the product they are selling is suitable for the person paying for it - which we were and are not.

homer_j_3

Under the CCA 1974 a loan can be made unenforceable under certain circumstances, the main one being that there is an incorrect/incomplete/no original credit agreement in place. Having PPI does not automatically make it unenforceable but the way the PPI is detailed on the agreement can. So with out seeing what the credit agreement says, it is difficult to say whether or not you have a unenforceable loan or not.

Where PPI has a big issue is whether or not there has been any disclosure of the commission that the lender received for selling that insurance. If there was not the loan is voidable because the lender has committed a form of bribery.

Unenforceable and Voidable are 2 different things here and your agreement may mean that your loan is either one or the other or there may be a case for both.

If you have spent 3 years arguing this point, I find it amazing that black horse are even entertaining you but it shows that lenders are prepared to bat the ball back to you all day long if it doesnt commit them to anything.

I would look at maybe altering your tact a little and maybe look to get some specialist help or spend some time on understanding the arguments etc.

ih8banx

OK - despite the years (3 years for Black Horse,but have spent 5 years getting my head around the financial rules in the UK) spent researching this, I have not come across the bribery angle before. It makes perfect sense, and no, it is not disclosed on my credit agreement.

Now, I'm focussing on how to get a settlement offer and clear our names as BH has put nasty things on our credit rating -which I have had to send away to the credit referencing companies to put my own notes on to correct the entry but thse are not picked up by automated searches. So what now? I want to be paid for all of this work!!

I am a bookkeeper, run my business and my husband's business, used to work at a bank and am taking law courses (my current assignment is all based on the Competition Commission). I could represent myself, but do not want to ruin the oppurtunity of smearing these finance pigs across the front pages and I want enough of a settlement that it will make them rethink their tactics.

I followed BH's formalcomplaints procedure, then OFT's formalcomplaints procedure. then had to start over with the FLA's procedure. The FLA has no power, they only act as mediators. They cannot advise the companies they regulate, and can't punish them. They can't even finwe them for going against their own code. The FLA collect membership money from the companies, so their interests lie with them. When I asked them what action they could take, they said they would pass the letters on to BH (that I had already sent BH in the beginning). Oneof my main concerns is that nobody has any vested interest in closing this matter except us. BH has sold the loan on andon and on to different colection agencies and therefore has ALREADY HAD THE TOTAL AMOUNT OF THE LOAN AND INSURANCE PAID IN FULL by the companies that bought the debts. I've had to go through the whole process with each company as well.

What do you think, Homer? You seem to have picked up some things I have missed...

homer_j_3

Whenever you get a debt collection agency, you just need to ask them to provide a copy of the legal assignment and original credit agreement. If they cannot provide this, then they cannot enforce the debt. There are letters that I can copy and paste onto here if you need this.

If you are studying law, then you may want to look at 2 cases, which pretty much explain the angles as such

Wilson vs secretary of state and Wilson and another vs Hurstanger ltd.

There are companies out there that will help you fight these people if you feel that this is something that you need.

lydsmom

Hi

Just after some advise, I have sent the standard letter to Blackhorse re mis sold PPI but after reading this i'm wondering if there was any point. Has anyone had any luck with them? I had two loans with them taken out in 2004 and like most people was told I wouldn't get a loan without the PPI.

Thanks in advance

homer_j_3

Yes there is hope but it depends how you approach it.

I say this with the greatest respect but if you have not succeeded after 3 years of trying then you have to question your approach. It doesn't mean that the lender is in the right.

I will put a link up for a thread that I wrote which your loans will probably have some of these issues that i discuss. If you want to get your loans put right then you should be looking to do it properly and fully understand the arguments that are involved.
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=930311