CRL warranty not accepted

Warrantyexperts

@WarrantyEx....sorry but I think we are coming at this from different angles - you being an industry person, me being an injured policy holder. But I do appreciate the dialogue and perspective nonetheless thank you.


Understood and appreciated. It is a different angle but I suspect we both want the same thing, open and transparent dealings where the consumer understands what they are being provided with.


CRL's small print may say that they are managing agents. But I would argue that most people ex industry don't realise this: purchasers, consumers and press. Only last week Telegraph Money were referring to CRL as a broker. My builder called them a broker. So they may say that theyre a managing agent but I just think that's to nobody's benefit other than their own and effectively gets them off the hook from a lot of consumer responsibility.


100% agree. There is no real understanding of the differences between a broker, a managing agent or a direct insurer. This is an issue for the authorities to put right. Not just in the warranty market but across many other insurance products where similar confusion exists. The current system is open to the sort of abuse that is in evidence here!


The market does have a number of unrated underwriters. I actually have no issue with this. What I take issue with is the failure to disclose to consumers and purchasers Pre contract that the underwriter is indeed unrated. I see in New Zealand of all places that this is a regulatory requirement - so lax that the UK authorities see no need to make this a requirement which just leaves the door wide open to mis selling in my opinion.


Again, couldn't agree more. It is imperative that the purchaser has full information on the quality of insurer before purchasing. Unfortunately, because the purchaser is often the builder/developer they will turn a blind eye to the quality of insurer in favour of price. The authorities should require more emphasis on the managing agents and direct insurers in this regard to ensure it is highlighted to customers.


With regards to recommending alternatives - I'm not working in the industry I have no stake. But what I will say is that's a lot of Brokers will not take payment by a credit card whereas a direct purchase non broker will accept a credit card. Even if a broker does take a credit card, then section 75 consumer protection doesn't apply. Had I known this in 2016, I would have purchased my warranty directly myself with an insurer such as BuildZone directly on my credit card - and I would probably have retrieved the premium of my defunct policy.


I'm not an expert on the credit card issue but Buildzone are a managing agent rather than insurer. In my experience most brokers would accept payment by credit card but, as I say, I wouldn't profess to be an expert on the protections that come with that.


Finally, a house warranty IS a consumer product. Consumers not builders make the claims. CRL and others may say otherwise but i disagree. If a house warranty is not a consumer product, then why on earth are CRL now industry champions of a Consumer Code of all things via Trading Standards!! !


I don't disagree with you in that this is a consumer product. However, I believe the problems stem from the fact that in most cases developers and contractors are the initial purchasers of the product. It benefits the ultimate owner, being a retail consumer, but in most cases the purchaser is a commercial entity. In a situation where the purchaser does not benefit from the warranty issued then it is no surprise when crucial points such as the quality of insurer are overlooked in favour of a cheaper price. Whilst the industry operates the way it does I'm not sure how you solve that but my understanding is that tighter regulation and industry requirements are being brought in. How tight and how effective remains to be seen....


I too appreciate the dialogue and hope that the industry changes in the future to prevent this type of situation from ever occurring again. I'm not hopeful though given the latest updates and manoeuvring of those involved.

Midge2020

Interesting latest Trust Pilot review which outlines one claimants failed CCJ attempt v CRL. Read it. To my mind, if she was sold that policy just a few days before Alpha A/S went bust (8 May was the media announcement) ....she needs to look at her timelines again very carefully. I say this because Alpha A/S actually ceased doing renewals or underwriting new policies from early March 2018 due to the earlier CBL collapse in New Zealand. If CRL continued taking new premium money post March 2018, then I'd say she would have a reasonable case to go back to court again but this time on a mis-sell / fraud claim. CRL were agents for Alpha....they didn't broker for a lot of different underwriters. It would therefore be reasonable to assume that the management / directors of CRL would have known full well that Alpha had indeed ceased new underwritings for 8 weeks before the official U.K. press announcement came through.
I wish this scenario presented for my situation; sadly it doesn't, otherwise I'd go for it! Particularly given CRL did pay the court fees.

Paul_Downward

Guys and Girls, As a developer who has had the misfortune of dealing with CRL, i now find myself having to issue court proceedings against CRL. The main issue is that I was stung by Alpha on my development of 4 houses. I then ported over to ARK Insurance. All good, cost best part of 10k..... O no it is not... As i asked for my Warranty Certs on 24th April 2019. Sent all docs including door and window warranty, EPC's Gas Elec Certs, air Tests and so on This was acknowledged by CRL. My Bridging Finance ran out on 31st May, at over 600k. All was in place to refinance and sales of properties. Start of May i went to work in KSA so was out of country, Mid May sent another EMail to G McClure, no answer, June, and July came and went, Finally i arrived back in the UK, and tried calling, no answer. Taking into account i am now in default with Bridging Loan as cannot sell or refinance with these warranties, and now at 3% for next 6 months, of which the Bridging Company will start repossession. It would appear that CRL cannot supply as they are in dispute with the Building Inspectors that they appointed to carry out warranty inspections.

They have kindly offered me retrospective insurance warranty that they will organise..... lol....

I have contacted these guys who state that they have not been paid since Feb 2018 by CRL, so will not send them over, CRL have emailed me confirming they owe them money.

I have given CRL until Wed next week to produce or will get retrospective through buildzone, but would imagine this is also expensive. I would be interested to find out if others are having the same issues, as so far, my lawsuit will be in the region of 60k towards them, i will also be looking to see what the authorities will do to have them struck off. Steve Mansour is a con artist and so are his sales people. If you do get offered anything by CRL i would avoid like the plague..... Feel free to contact me with information at paul@phdservice.co.uk

Warrantyexperts

I feel for you. A quick credit check (Experian) on CRL Management will give you some idea of the extent of problems others are having as well as a check on Trust Pilot reviews on the internet. The FSCS issued a statement stating that contracts for a replacement insurer would be signed on 24th/25th July. On 1st August they issued a statement saying they no longer expected a replacement would be in place but no update on any proposed actions. It's a big mess frankly.


Others are certainly having problems and I'm afraid they will continue for a while longer. I wish you luck in resolving what must be a stressful process.

abigailjw

FSCS Update!
Refunds being sent out to the policy holders apparently after the latest attempt to transfer has fallen through.. I am currently 1 1/2 months into a sale of my current property and I only just found out about this and now the whole chain could fall through.

If the builder is still the policy holder does anyone know if it is his responsibility to find an alternative provider as the house is only 2 1/2 years old?

Warrantyexperts

abigailjw wrote: »

FSCS Update!
Refunds being sent out to the policy holders apparently after the latest attempt to transfer has fallen through.. I am currently 1 1/2 months into a sale of my current property and I only just found out about this and now the whole chain could fall through.

If the builder is still the policy holder does anyone know if it is his responsibility to find an alternative provider as the house is only 2 1/2 years old?

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but once the property is sold and the property is over 2 years old, usually the builder/developer is out of the picture. The onus to resolve this will usually fall on the freehold property owner. There will be quite a cost to it but the market is now going to see many enquiries as a result of yesterdays announcement so my advice would be to get in there quickly to get as close to the front of the queue as you can.


The issue for many is that they have borrowed on a mortgage which requires a valid warranty to be in place for the first 10 years. The current position could put people in breach of their mortgage conditions which could be quite serious. So even if the property is not being sold there could be an issue for thousands of people.


I do know people who can assist in resolving if you wish to DM me.

abigailjw

Yes I have been working my hardest to find a new warranty to ensure my sale doesn't fall through. I really don't think this is fair or right for the home owner and the government needs to ensure builders can only get the warranties of rated underwriters.

I am still waiting for quotes but does anyone have an idea on how much a warranty might be?

Ayla_093

Hi all,

I’m late to the party (not that it’s a great party).
I only found out about this when I received a cheque yesterday and finding it very difficult to find advice. And very scared of the potential costs and figures in this thread.

My house is less than 2 years old, is there any chance that the builders might be responsible for sorting a new policy?

And if not can anyone signpost me to advice?

TIA

emmsyg

We're also just finding out we're involved with this, house is 2.5 years old. It's kind of infuriating as we didn't have any say in who our builder selected for this insurance, and now we have been lumped with the fallout of it, and offered £150 in compensation. We have just remortgaged for the next 5 years, and this warranty was asked for at the time of the remortgage, although I have no idea if our lender will now come looking for the replacement warranty. We simply don't have a spare £3000 + to pay for this insurance. Sitting on the cheque at the moment as are our neighbours until we get some legal advice, but I'm not sure we have any recourse here.

Trelech1

Hi,
also need some advice. I put a claim in with CRL in 2017 for some damage in my attic. I took them forever to deal with it at assess. I chased them for 2 years to try and get it sorted, they then told me it was Elite insurance holding it up. I contacted elite stating what is taking so long? I'm not sure why all my details are with you, since my policy is with Alpha.
I then find out CRL have sent all my details to the wrong company and that alpha have gone under. Do I have a case against them here for messing all this up?