PCN from Smart Parking- Confused

Sophies_Mum_14

I sent them an online complaint, got a generic response saying would respond in a certain time period then nothing

Coupon-mad

I'm not sure of what defence I can use.

You then listed practically all of the good defence points you have!

There photos suggest signage in place at the time stated 90 minutes or £90 charge. They took over the carpark in October 2017 when they operated a different system. I have found a newspaper article which states it was maximum 2 hour stay, first hour was free and had to get a ticket for second hour.

The photos they provide of signage is taken when leaves are on the trees and all foliage is green, etc so must have been taken some months after the date they claim there was a parking contravention for which I am being billed. The evidence they provided suggests it was 90 minutes and the vehicle was parked for 2 hours 8 minutes.

My other issue is that none of the photos of signage show a sign that clearly states rules have been changed.

At the time of the alleged contravention I was the keeper of the vehicle. My husband and I were both insured to drive it. I no longer have the vehicle. As previously stated I have ADHD which means it is harded for my brain to read large volumes of text or to note small details within it so unless expressly stated on clear signage that changes have occurred had I been the driver I would not have known to reread signs or have understood that new rules were in force. Though of course I am unable to identify the driver at the time.

Do I have any valid argument

YES!! All of the above is great.

And - if you are unsure who was driving - then Smart don't use POFA wording in their NTKs and CANNOT hold you liable under any applicable law.

Sophies_Mum_14

I was starting to get nervous but if these seems like sound arguments I will stick to my guns. Just didn't know if with an overstay in excess of 40 minutes that I was on a hiding to nothing. When I looked at the threads it seemed like people had very short overstays or ticket machine defences, etc.

Do I reply to gladstones letter now? Or do I just start drafting a legal defence in anticipation? Should I try to email smart parking to request the dates and details of rules changes and dates of signage changes? Do they have to provide this to me? Will it help my defence to do so?

Sorry not being lazy I have spent lots of times reading and rereading threads I know usual things apply to me but as I am sighting the absence of signage stating rule changes and no evidence that these were present when they say I overstayed not sure if there is a law that will help me get info. Does anyone know whether freedom of info or anything like that mean I am entitled?

Also would I tell them of my intent to assert that the photos were taken in wrong season due to lighting plantlife etc in my draft defence as they could then pull other additional stock photos of signs. Do I wait until a later stage?

Coupon-mad

You are not yet at defence stage if you've not yet had a claim form N1.

But read the BPA Code of Practice about the requirement to place extra signs up when new rules are brought in, so that people familiar with the old rules are not unfairly caught out like this.

FOI does no apply to private firms, only public bodies like Councils.

You can't force them to show what date the signs changed but you can ask that they produce that in evidence, as part of your defence, an raise it in your WS as well and then at the hearing in the end.

And the BPA CoP and any photos you have taken in a more relevant light with foliage in the way, will help you so you could crack on with that now.

Also Google Street View should show the images before and after the sign change, so go and look (you can use the little arrow & clock next to the date in the little box top left of Street View, to change the date back to the previous image).

And have you TOTALLY EXHAUSTED the landowner/retailer complaint?

Did you read the thread by BS Newbie who just stopped Britannia Parking (several PCNs at Waitrose, also at LBC stage) by a massive onslaught complaint to Waitys? Read it, do that, even though you've probably tried.

Do it again. The relief when these cases are cancelled at LBC stage is immense!

Sophies_Mum_14

Hi coupon mad, I haven't heard anything from gladstones since their reply in April. I reviewed street viewer but you can't see any signs at all from that.

I am worryjng as I am due to move house at the end of July & don't want them to send court papers to my current address.

I have drafted a letter which I was toying with sending. They said I needed to reoly within 30 days but it wasn't a proper LBC with an official template.

Should I send the following

Dear xxxxx

Thank you for your response to my original letter sent in February. The image bundle that you sent and that your xorrespondence refers to appears not to relate to the claim you are persuing against me as the previous registered keeper of the vehicle xxxxxxx.

The images of signage have no dates on them, but it is clear that they do not show signage as it would have been on the date that you claim a driver of the vehicle that was registered to me at that time overstayed. All of the trees have green leaves, the foliage is in bloom and their is a sizeable bumble bee on one of the shots. There is no realistic possibility of this having been the case on any given day in January. Please furnish me with dated pictures of signage on the date in question, as it is my belief that the pictures that you have sent do not consitute proof of these rules being in place on the date that your client assert there was a contravention, but rather that at some point since in that car park there may have been such signs.

I am informed that the terms and conditions have changed on numerous occasions in the car park in question. I am advised by the store that Smart Parking took over operating this car park at the end of 2017, as such this sign has to be much later than the date in question and as such is again not applicable to this case.

Please be advised that I submitted a subject access request to your client (Smart Parking) back in February and have as yet received no response from them. I have phoned them to chase this up but to no avail. I have now requested dated photos showing the exact signage in place on the date in question and also for dates of changes to terms and conditions within the car park as I am advised by the store these have been changed on numeous occasions. I note that there are no pictures wihin the bundle of any signage advising parkers of recent changes to terms and conditions. I shall also await a response from them with regard to this query.

I would also like to draw your attention to the following statement within your response "you exceeded your stay, therefore, you breached..." Please be reminded that you are persuing me as the registered keeper and not as the driver of the vehicle in question. Please refrain from using such accusitory statements in all future correspondence.

Given the tardiness of your client in this matter and of yourselves in respect of the previous correspondence, also the continued failure to provide the neccessary proof that you have a legitimate claim against me I again request that you drop any action against me as the former keeper.

Please be advised that I am due to change address in the near future and will notify of the change in my address for service in due course. Please do not send any correspondence by mail to my current registered address in the menatime as I am awaiting a completion date and worry that I may be disadvantaged should you choose to do so.

Regards Bryony

Coupon-mad

This is more important:

have you TOTALLY EXHAUSTED the landowner/retailer complaint?

Did you read the thread by BS Newbie who just stopped Britannia Parking (several PCNs at Waitrose, also at LBC stage) by a massive onslaught complaint to Waitys? Read it, do that, even though you've probably tried.

Do it again. The relief when these cases are cancelled at LBC stage is immense!

Then, ONLY if landowner complaint fails (and it usually WORKS, pre-court) then make this more robust:

I again request that you drop any action against me as the former keeper.

TELL them you insist they cease and desist because Smart Parking cannot rely on the POFA 2012 and have no cause of action against you as keeper, nor can they use some twisted interpretation of the Law of Agency against an individual keeper.

Tell them that your terms from now on for handling each letter, now that they have had a chance to take stock and realise the POFA was not complied with by their client, is £25 per letter to compensate for your time and significant distress regarding this unwarranted harassment, pursuant to the case of Ferguson v British Gas.

Finish by telling them that their acceptance of these terms is by performance, and (save for an acknowledgement when you furnish them/their client with your new address for service, purely to stop the possibility of a secret CCJ to an old address, typical of this scam industry) every reply from them or their clients from now on will attract a £25 charge by way of damages and compensation for harassment, and this will be pursued in court as a active counter-claim, if the case progresses.