Can I use family members card for them?

no1catman

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

So what happens the day you go to use the card and you're asked to sign instead of Chip and Pin? You forge a signature? Or you say "oh I can't do that it's not my card?" Neither are a good solution ...

These days it's contactless or chip & pin, long time since any need to sign. If that did happen I'd take the other card back and use another one instead.

PeacefulWaters

no1catman wrote: »

These days it's contactless or chip & pin, long time since any need to sign. If that did happen I'd take the other card back and use another one instead.

You're using two accounts for a relative!

elsien

If your relative doesn't want to go down the power of attorney route, a quicker option which will cover you both in all eventualities is to set up a third party bank mandate on the account.
It also saves the complications from having a joint account where legally the money would belong to both of you.

no1catman

PeacefulWaters wrote: »

You're using two accounts for a relative!

No, if I had a problem with the one I'm given, I'd use one of my own.

enthusiasticsaver

No you should not use the family members card. It says quite clear
Y in terms and conditions you should not allow anyone else to use your card nor disclose the Pin. My husband had POA for his mum and it involved going into the bank and getting a new card issued in his name.

unholyangel

enthusiasticsaver wrote: »

No you should not use the family members card. It says quite clear
Y in terms and conditions you should not allow anyone else to use your card nor disclose the Pin. My husband had POA for his mum and it involved going into the bank and getting a new card issued in his name.

Has OP said who they bank with? If not, it will depend on T&C's.

For example TSB only say:

16.2 You won’t be responsible for any payment instructions
you did not give yourself, even if they were given using
your card or Security Details, unless we can prove
either:
(a) that you have acted fraudulently in which case you
will be liable for all payments from the account that
we have been unable to stop; or
(b) that you have been grossly negligent with your card
or Security Details. Depending on the facts of the
case and any legal requirements that apply, you
may be liable for payments from your account but
only until you have told us that your card or Security
Details have been lost, stolen or could be misused.

Similarly Natwest say you're only liable with gross negligence/you failed to take reasonable steps to keep your account details (including PIN) safe.

Barclays in contrast say that breaching the agreement is grounds not to refund you and that you must not give your payment details to anyone. Its unlikely the FoS would agree with their terms though if it was just a technical breach that had no real effect (if the disclosure didn't cause the loss/wasn't negligent).

JayJay100

I've got this going on with a friend, right now. She used her mum's card to do her mum's shopping, withdraw money from the cash point and pay bills in general. She did everything for her mum, and didn't think it was necessary to have anything formal in place. She kept every receipt, withdrawal statement and bank statement. Her mum has now died, and because the will was weighted in my friend's favour, her sister is making a real stink over the situation. My friend has been asked asked to account for every single transaction for the last seven years, the sister has raised a question mark over her mum's mental capacity, and my friend has been accused of fraud. When my friend went to see a solicitor, the first thing he said was that it had been handled badly, and it would be an uphill battle to disprove the allegations. It's also costing a fortune in solicitor fees.

Pollycat

JayJay100 wrote: »

I've got this going on with a friend, right now. She used her mum's card to do her mum's shopping, withdraw money from the cash point and pay bills in general. She did everything for her mum, and didn't think it was necessary to have anything formal in place. She kept every receipt, withdrawal statement and bank statement. Her mum has now died, and because the will was weighted in my friend's favour, her sister is making a real stink over the situation. My friend has been asked asked to account for every single transaction for the last seven years, the sister has raised a question mark over her mum's mental capacity, and my friend has been accused of fraud. When my friend went to see a solicitor, the first thing he said was that it had been handled badly, and it would be an uphill battle to disprove the allegations. It's also costing a fortune in solicitor fees.

Oh dear. That's awful for your friend.

Pollycat wrote: »

There is actually a legitimate way to deal with this, at least with the Natwest bank.
My Mum is elderly, my sister does all her shopping and used to use Mum's debit card.
I arranged for NW to issue a card on Mum's account but with my sister's name on it.

I can't remember exactly now but it was a bit of a faff.
I think my sister had to attend the bank branch and NW wrote to my Mum to get her approval and it took a while.
But it is all above board now.

I did this ^^^^ to safeguard my sister in case there was any comeback in the future.

JayJay100

Pollycat wrote: »

Oh dear. That's awful for your friend.


I did this ^^^^ to safeguard my sister in case there was any comeback in the future.

Thankfully, her mum was a creature of habit, so it's quite easy to say 'Friday - hair appointment, Saturday - bingo, Sunday - carvery lunch with family', but it's a monster task to go through bags of receipts to support everything, especially at a time when my friend is grieving. There's also the disbelief that her sister has accused her in such a way, but I suppose that money brings the worst out in people.

If my friend had obtained a card in her name, on her mum's account, it wouldn't have stopped all of this, but it would have helped to support her position.

Malthusian

JayJay100 wrote: »

When my friend went to see a solicitor, the first thing he said was that it had been handled badly, and it would be an uphill battle to disprove the allegations.

I can understand why he wouldn't want your friend to be complacent. But if her sister wants to take her to court, a judge will decide on the balance of probabilities whether your friend was spending the money on herself. And given the copious receipts and statements, it's the sister that has the uphill battle, based on the facts presented.

The question of whether she had mental capacity to make the Will is potentially a thorny one. Did your friend's mother make the Will after she'd given away her bank card? Doesn't mean she didn't have capacity if she'd given it away, but it adds weight to the sister's side.

unholyangel wrote:

Has OP said who they bank with? If not, it will depend on T&C's. For example TSB only say:

"*snip* You won’t be responsible for any payment instructions you did not give yourself, even if they were given using your card or Security Details, unless we can prove either: (b) that you have been grossly negligent with your card or Security Details."

Giving your card and PIN to someone else = gross negligence, regardless of whether it is explicitly stated as such in the T&Cs.

What constitutes gross negligence is not strictly defined. The Financial Ombudsman refers to it as "more than carelessness, bordering on recklessness" - giving your card and PIN to a family member is a deliberate act and clearly "more than carelessness". What we can say with certainty is that it's an open goal, an invitation to your bank to refuse to refund you if fraud does occur.