Windscreen PCN on a lease car in Scotland

Ghnomia

Hi All,
I'm opening a new thread because even though I read the newbie post and pretty much all the posts related to lease cars, I'm still not quite sure whether the best action for my situation is clearly covered.

I'm now at day 3 since the windscreen ticket, issued by P4 in Scotland, and I'm keen to let it run late following the line of action of Edna and waiting for an NTK to arrive to my place.

This sounds like the most logic thing to do based on what I've learned in the forum but, the newbie section clearly states:

In the case of a company car or hire car, if you get a windscreen ticket you MUST appeal before day 28 (well before day 21 when it's an IPC firm which only 'offers' 21 days to appeal - check the PCN). This is in order to hook the PPC in your direction, before they get a chance to get the keeper's details from the DVLA.

Now I don't understand why I should do that?! What am I missing?If the leasing company gives them my address, they will send me the NTK, which is exactly what my direct appeal was supposed to be for, so what's the difference? In my opinion, appealing to a windscreen ticket (through the P4 online form, as requested in the PCN) will identify me as the "Driver" while I need to make clear that I am just "the keeper" in this context.
So, can you help me understand better why, as a keeper, I should appeal before the NTK? and with which template? The ones in the newbies' sections are written as a reply to NTK and not as windscreen ticket appeal so they don't seem to be applicable to my case.

Thanks

Coupon-mad

Windscreen PCN on a lease car in Scotland

Oh dear, dangerous to wait for the NTK.

I don't understand why I should do that?! What am I missing?If the leasing company gives them my address,

IF IF IF

Look what lease/hire firms do:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5808847

''UK car park management managed to get the registered keeper details through DVLA, the hire company paid the ticket without letting me have any further chance of appealing.''

and

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5778412

''We have been contacted by an issuing body advising us of a traffic violation that occurred during the period of your recent vehicle hire with us. Please see attached photocopy of the notice for details.

We have paid the notice on your behalf...''

and

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5778261

Europcar paid PCN of £60 to ParkingEye on my behalf, which i consider is outside their t & c.

and

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5727229

I contacted Europcar car and ... they have taken £87 out of my bank

and by way of comparison, and to show you an example appeal, here is one in Scotland like yours:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5723445

no outcome on that last one, we assume Smart cancelled when they saw the appeal shown there, shows you what to do, and why.

In my opinion, appealing to a windscreen ticket (through the P4 online form, as requested in the PCN) will identify me as the "Driver" while I need to make clear that I am just "the keeper" in this context.

Wrong. Call yourself the lessee/hirer. You are then untouchable.

And contact the lease firm (NOW) and tell them in writing you have appealed and taken responsibility for a rogue PCN scam, and that if they get a letter about it they are NOT authorised to pay it, under ANY circumstances, as it is not their liability or business when a hirer/lessee has appealed already.

Ghnomia

Thank you for the prompt reply Coupon-mad,
the leasing company (Jaguar) is not going to pay, by contract they always need to redirect everything to me (it has happened before with another PCN in a hotel parking, easily solved asking the hotel to cancel it in that case)

Also, being in Scotland, I'm not after POPLA code.

So should I just use the blue template, removing the request for POPLA and asking for landowner cancellation policy and BPA timescales?

Coupon-mad

Yes if you like.

Or wait, if you are 100% certain Jaguar will not pay it, not even if a new employee opens the post and thinks it's their liability. You could always warn them.

Any mileage in a retailer cancellation? That's always PLAN A if a retail park.

Ghnomia

Any mileage in a retailer cancellation? That's always PLAN A if a retail park.

Unfortunately this was a private residential car park, at friend's (rented) house.

Coupon-mad

Just make sure the driver is never admitted, if that's the case, you are safe.

P4Parking are not known to sue in Scotland that I can recall and it will go nowhere.

Ghnomia

Cool, I'll keep the post updated on further development. Thank you again!

Umkomaas

Coupon-mad wrote: »

P4Parking are not known to sue in Scotland that I can recall and it will go nowhere.

They're not known to sue in England or Wales either! Almost certainly going nowhere.

http://www.bmpa.eu/companydata/P4_Parking_UK.html

Ghnomia

Hi all,
after about 3 months, I've received the following redirected letter from Jaguar:

Dear Jaguar Contract Hire,
Despite our letter of 05/05/2018 [this is a lie, we have never received any letter!!!], your PCN has still not beein paid nor you have advised us that you were not the keeper or the driver of the vehicle on the date stated. HOWEVER THE TIME TO APPEAL HAS NOW PASSED.
As all correspondence to you has been ignored, any offer or reduced payment is revoked and full payment is now due DIRECTLY TO TNC

The letter is dated 2 June, so Jaguar received the letter 20 days ago, althought I'm receiving it just now.
Judging by the content of the letter, it looks like this is not the first notice, however the attached message from Jaguar to us says:

Dear XXXX,
Please find enclosed the first notice which we have received from TNC Parking Services [...]
We are making you aware of this parking notice as you are strongly advised to take one or more of the following actions immediately:
- if the parking charge is admitted pay this notice as its lowest amount immediately
- if the parking charge notice is disputed please write to the Company with your personal details explaining the reasons for your dispute. Please also inform Jaguar Contract Hire of ny appeal submitted so we can place the charge on hold
- If you wish to appeal any unresolved dispute this can be done via an indipendent appeal process
- if you are not sure of any aspect of the parking charge notice being forwarded to you please contact the parking Company so they can deal with questions
Please ensure that this is dealt with as a matter of urgency to avoid any escalation of the charge amount. If you do not take steps to deal with this matter and Jaguar Contract Hire receives a further notice, this will be paid without further reference to you.
The amount of notice (which might be at a highervalue) together with the appropriate administration fee, if not previously charged, will then be invoiced in accordance with the agreed policy.
As we are the registered keepers of the vehicle we give you full authorisation to deal with this matter.

This whole situation sounds pretty scary now, I feel like there has been a lack of urgency from jaguar and I'm thinking to call them to undertsand if this is really the first notice or not.

However, can you help me understand what is my best strategy at this point in time? To recap the timeline:

• Parking Charge date (as claimed in the Parking Company letter): 17/03/2018
• Never received any letter at my address
• Company claims to have sent the first letter (to Jaguar I guess) on 05/05/2018 - no action from Jaguar
• Company send this further Outstanding PCN to Jaguar on 02/06/2018
• Jaguar forwards the letter to me on 21/06/2018

What should I do? The Due amount is currently £179. Do I have other options other than paying?

Many thanks in advance!!

Umkomaas

On a quick scan of your thread, tell Jaguar that you're dealing with it and not to bother their little feline heads about it any more.

Re-posting the P4Parking court proceedings link, some 3 months on since I last gave you this, shows no further shift towards litigiousness than any time previously.

http://www.parkingappeals.info/companydata/P4_Parking_UK.html

This whole situation sounds pretty scary now

!!!!!!.

Boo! :eek:

What should I do?

Forget it unless they issue a LBC or MCOL.

Coupon-mad

If you do not take steps to deal with this matter and Jaguar Contract Hire receives a further notice, this will be paid without further reference to you.

Dare I say ''I told you so'' in post #2 back in March, and told you what to do, in order to make sure no letters go to Jaguar. Do that now.

You were so confident they would not pay but we know differently.