what expenditure is allowed

soolin

Just an update. I have finally heard from the DWP to say that dad will be entitled to attendance allowance from january 2008, so that is another bit of income to put towards his fees.

House sale appears to be moving forward, I am due down there again today and have a list of reasons already why i can't possibly go...

I have also heard from SS who have now billed me for a percentage of the fees paid to date. They appear to have just stopped paying and are refusing to fully pay the 12 weeks they promised 'in hand' so I just need to confirm with the home exactly what has been paid so that I can be sure I do not over pay SS.

Dad has been a little unwell which is distressing but appears to be on the mend now. His expensive NHS hearing aid which he needed as he is profoundly deaf was broken at the home when they tried to clean it, and now it has been lost so the home is trying to sort out a home visit from the hearing aid people to see what can be done. We had been due to go to the hospital last week but as he was unwell and is now struggling to walk that appointment was cancelled hence the need for a home visit.

Biggles

Attendance Allowance.
Why 'from January 08'? Do they have a crystal ball and see him becoming entitled in the future? Surely, if he qualifies, it should be payable immediately? I assume Jan 08 is the 13th week from your father entering the care home but AA is only withheld till then if the Council are disregarding the value of his house. If he is already self-funding, AA should continue throughout his stay.

Care Home Fees
Reading between your lines, I'm assuming you have >£21,500 excluding the house and the Council are helping you with care home fees until you can realise all your father's assets? That being the case, they should continue the 'deferred payments arrangement' as long as is necessary.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HealthAndWellBeing/HealthServices/CareHomes/DG_10031411

soolin

The letter with the attendance allowance notification says that AA is only payable from a date 6 months after the person requires assistance or becomes incapacitated. My dad had his stroke in July so january will be 6 months after that. Throughout the process I have been completely honest, perhaps naively so, so when they phoned me a couple of times to ask me how dad had been prior to the stroke I told them that he was confused but apart from a little help from me with shopping he managed completely on his own.

As for the social services, they have been a nightmare throughout to the point that I made a complaint about their bullying attititude and rudeness. I do now have access to dad's 'cash' so can arrange for funds to be made available, however what i was not prepared to do was to pay the social services in full when they had refused to pay the home..hence the new demand for slightly less than the 12 weeks fees. I'm going to phone the care home in a moment to make sure the amount I am being charged is the same amount that SS have paid.

margaretclare

soolin wrote: »

The letter with the attendance allowance notification says that AA is only payable from a date 6 months after the person requires assistance or becomes incapacitated. My dad had his stroke in July so January will be 6 months after that. Throughout the process I have been completely honest, perhaps naively so, so when they phoned me a couple of times to ask me how dad had been prior to the stroke I told them that he was confused but apart from a little help from me with shopping he managed completely on his own.

Oh Soolin. You've now learned from experience, but it is always advisable to present a 'worst case scenario'. If a person can sometimes do things for himself, but mostly struggles, then don't mention that he can sometimes do it.

I hope he's getting the higher rate i.e. day and night, not just day?

As for the social services, they have been a nightmare throughout to the point that I made a complaint about their bullying attitude and rudeness. I do now have access to dad's 'cash' so can arrange for funds to be made available, however what i was not prepared to do was to pay the social services in full when they had refused to pay the home..hence the new demand for slightly less than the 12 weeks fees. I'm going to phone the care home in a moment to make sure the amount I am being charged is the same amount that SS have paid.

I would make a written complaint in the strongest possible terms. Why should these people think they can be rude to you? Find out what their complaints procedure is - they must have one. There will be a person who is named as being the one to whom complaints must be addressed. Put it in writing and keep copies.

Best wishes

Margaret

Norman-B

margaretclare wrote: »

I thought that you didn't have to pay for the first 12 weeks?

Good news about selling the house.

Margaret

+


I was in the same position as you soolin and I did not pay for the first 12 weeks care home fees for my dad. It's called the 12 week disregard.

Without doubt, you have made the correct decision re selling the house imo.

monkeyspanner

Soolin, You seem to have hit problems at every turn. How do old vulnerable people manage without a relative like you to do this fighting for them?

I hestitate to open up another avenue but I noticed that you mentioned your Dad had suffered a stroke. Has your Dad had a continuing care assessment? This is normally done (and sholud be done) if someone is discharged straight from hospital to a care home. If assessed as needing Continuing care the NHS have to pick up all the costs of the care home. The central criteria is that the persons primary care need is medical rather than domestic. Continuing care is notoriously difficult to get and the authorities avoid it if possible as it is obviously expensive. However, if as you say your Dad was managing to live almost independantly prior to his stroke and a stroke is a medical event and your Dad now needs care, logic would say his need for a care home is primarily medical.

As regards your problems with the 12 week disregard and the SS. If your Dad's primary asset is/was his house and he had less than £21500 in other savings the SS are obliged to pay his care home fees for up to 12 weeks or until the house is sold if that is earlier. In those circumstances the only contribution your Dad has to pay is his income less a "pocket money" allowance of £20.45/week (minimum). If his weekly income is more than the care home fees plus the pocket money allowance then obviously he would have to pay the lot. There also seems to be a question mark about the treatment of the difference between the actual care home fees paid by self funders and the councils assessed standard weekly rate and whether this has to be paid as a first party top-up by the client.

To clarify this I will give you our unresolved 12 week disregard negotiation with the SS at Devon County Council. Luckily DCC have paid the full fees for the period the house was unsold and we are waiting the hear from them regarding my MIL's contribution. A DCC finance officer has given us the following likely scenario.

Care Home fees £415
DCC SS standard weekly care assessment level 3 £314

MIL's Weekly income approx £156 (Pension + higher level attendance allowance)


DCC SS assessed contribution £314
less income after deduction of weekly allowance £135.55
Net DCC SS Payment £178.45

Thus shortfall to be paid by my MIL £236.55
made up of net income £135.55
plus 1st party top-up £101

We have been advised to dispute the £101 top-up if DCC try to recover it by Counsel and Care as during the 12 week disregard period the client should be treated as though the council were funding the care and be no worse off. Obviously this is not always the case when the care homes charge more than the council's standard rates for self funders.

If it is any comfort (probably not?) It has taken us 10 weeks to get my MIL's indefinite attendance allowance award (of 2 years standing) payments reinstated after her discharge from hospital to care home. This seems somewhat out of wack with the immediate suspension of payments when we told AA she had been in hospital for 4 weeks.

I hope your Dad's medical situation stabilises soon. Let me know if our situation is relavant in your DAd's case and I will let you know how we get on. Don't hold you breath as the finance officer says it may be the New Year before we hear anything!

mary43

I've read through your thread with interest. It's a nightmare trying to sort everything out. After Mums stroke and a six month stay in hospital she moved to domicillary care - same care as in a residential home but she was able to buy the flat she's in and pay for her care. After the house sale and the purchase of the flat her assets went down after the purchase of necessary items for her and I completed a re-assessment form with the help of Social Services who I have to say in this case were very helpful.
Sadly Mum is now very poorly and we're not sure how long she will go on for.
When she bought the flat she felt content that at least part of her hard earned savings were safe to pass on to me and my brother but I now get a bit concerned. Will the council want this back when something happens to Mum and the flat is sold back to the domicallary home ?

I wish you well soolin. As for clearing the house........I had the same problems and couldn't face going upstairs.....in fact I passed out the first day I tried to sort out things. From then on I had a friend do it with me. She jollied me along and we got through it and arranged for the Salvation Army to take what none of the family wanted. Good luck to you

EdInvestor

mary43 wrote: »

...... she was able to buy the flat she's in and pay for her care. .. Will the council want this back when something happens to Mum and the flat is sold back to the domicallary home ?

Can't see why, if she is paying for her care herself.

Biggles

I think Mary's saying her mother's funds were reduced, thus the Council carried out an assessment, I assume this led to them paying towards her care.

But no, it isn't a loan and I'm sure I'm right in saying that if she dies while still living in her flat, it can be sold and the money will belong to her estate.

mary43

Thanks Biggles - I thought that was the case but you can never be sure with these things.
Mums costs were reduced after a short period of self funding after the house sale and prior to her re-assessment. When the flat is sold back to the domicillary home it is for the same price as it was paid for less a certain amound administration from what I gather.
Thanks for your help. I must praise you all for doing a first rate job. This whole thing is a total minefield and I wish I'd known about it sooner