Karmacat: I'm passionate about my DFW journey to riches

Karmacat

ZTD wrote: »

A stoploss isn't hairy - a stoploss is to stop things becoming hairy...

Well, true .... but the fear of a stoploss going 'ping' is the hairy bit! (see below, "survival").

You seem to put a lot of emotion into your trading. Close your eyes and imagine a loss. What do feel?

Yeah:D Actually, its a really good point, I do. Part of my working life, for literally the past 20 years, has been focussed around sensing what I feel, cos thats a good indicator of how other people might feel towards a client of mine, and my task is to use that therapeutically to help the client. It goes a bit wrong, tho, when I forget to shut down that process in relation to trading :rolleyes: Risking a loss brings up survival feelings (i.e., I'm going to die). Thats the emotional level I've been trying to bring under control. And the lack of self esteem that says, oh this won't work for me.

So what do I have to do then...come down there and tie you to your chair..? :rotfl:

Ooh, yes please! :rotfl: I have to not open up other websites. If I get restless, I have to walk up and down, or use my free weights or something. I *cannot* use other websites, or my email, it just takes me right out of the focus and attention I need. I've actually conquered the fear now - its just that regular focus.

Its simple as that. Easy, huh!

Seaxwyn

Karmacat, whenever you write about the trading, I get a strong feeling that you don't actually want to do it. Your mind refuses to focus on it because this is not what it wants to do. Sorry if it's not helpful to say that, but it is the message I get very strongly from what you write.

ZTD

Karmacat wrote: »

Well, true .... but the fear of a stoploss going 'ping' is the hairy bit! (see below, "survival").

You need to try to stop thinking that a stoploss triggering means you've "failed". It's a statistical thing. Is that why you didn't use to set stop-losses?

Karmacat wrote: »

Risking a loss brings up survival feelings (i.e., I'm going to die). Thats the emotional level I've been trying to bring under control.

Any size loss? Or just a big one.

Karmacat wrote: »

And the lack of self esteem that says, oh this won't work for me.

How can you overcome that?

Karmacat wrote: »

Ooh, yes please! :rotfl:

You'll lose concentration...

Karmacat wrote: »

I have to not open up other websites. If I get restless, I have to walk up and down, or use my free weights or something. I *cannot* use other websites, or my email, it just takes me right out of the focus and attention I need. I've actually conquered the fear now - its just that regular focus.

What about the radio?

Karmacat wrote: »

Its simple as that. Easy, huh!

Hmmm....I'm not convinced... But success at your trading will convince me...

Karmacat

Seaxwyn wrote: »

Karmacat, whenever you write about the trading, I get a strong feeling that you don't actually want to do it. Your mind refuses to focus on it because this is not what it wants to do. Sorry if it's not helpful to say that, but it is the message I get very strongly from what you write.

What you're picking up is real, Seaxwyn, but its not about the trading ... its about facing my fear. I don't particularly want to go there!

ZTD

Karmacat wrote: »

What you're picking up is real, Seaxwyn, but its not about the trading ... its about facing my fear. I don't particularly want to go there!

No one wants to confront their fears. It's what enables their fears to survive.

Karmacat

ZTD wrote: »

You need to try to stop thinking that a stoploss triggering means you've "failed". It's a statistical thing. Is that why you didn't use to set stop-losses?

I don't intellectually think that way. I know perfectly well that no signal works 100% of the time, and a stoploss is always necessary for those times. I still don't "set" a stoploss - my stoploss on the ftse is 15, on the dow and cable (when I use them, which I don't) is 20. Cos I'm at the screen the whole time I'm in the market, I don't set them on the website....

Any size loss? Or just a big one.

Another interesting point! Yes, any loss - but I was thinking about it this weekend (again!) and realised that it *is* also about money - I've always been horrified to think I might care about money. I have some very weird beliefs around money, I'm sorry to say - and I'm a therapist, and its just my way that I need to think about all this stuff...

How can you overcome that?

The only question that matters. Well, I think I've done most of it, to be honest - my solution is to focus on remembering the system, remembering that my fears are not connected to the reality of trading, and dissipate the adrenaline overload by walking/free weight use.

You'll lose concentration...

Of course!

What about the radio?

No, very distracting!

Hmmm....I'm not convinced... But success at your trading will convince me...

Um, there was a little wordplay in describing it as simple. It *is* simple. But its not easy. I swear that tomorrow I won't come on here in that way, and if there's a signal, I'll take it.

Off now - want to watch Tony Robinson on the evolution of the earth ... have a good one, Z, and thanks to you, and Seaxwyn too, for sitting through this and thinking about it. I do appreciate it.

Karmacat

ZTD wrote: »

No one wants to confront their fears. It's what enables their fears to survive.

Oh, thats good, I like that. Of course, in all this, I *am* confronting my fears. I really really am I've always confronted my fears, as much as I can - I'm just pushing the boat out on this one a bit.

G'night!

Karmacat

Well, a new day dawns and in my case, it really does. After the very helpful conversations last night, I did trade this morning, i.e. I managed to follow my system. There were a couple of blips when I didn't, when I got trapped by the "this won't work this time" - and there's always excuses for that (not reasons!!!) but I listened to my system, and made another fiver. I stayed a lot calmer too - sort of a little mantra to myself, which is what I used to do as a plane was taking off (think Jodie Foster in Contact).

I'm all the more pleased because there were no signals for a couple of hours - and I did what I said I'd do, physical stuff rather than opening websites. The only time I opened a website was in the runup to a trade announcement, when my system says I don't trade *ever*, because it can get volatile. So I'm ecstatic with that :j (not really ... it just confirms the possibilities are opening up).

The only thing I didn't do was wait for an exit signal - I *know* I need to work on that. Thats okay - I'm not one of those chancers that will sit on a loss, my failing is to get out too soon, not too late - to not listen to the old saw, "cut your losses, let your profits run". The trade I was in would still be going. Don't care! I've always known that regularly pushing the button is the key.

Now I can give myself a bit of time off on here! :j

boredofbeingathome

Great news KC, i think you have found a way over/ around that little wall! I was thinking about what you said yesterday about the way you face challenges in your life..i like the way you think as sometimes it eerily echoes the way i think aout facing fears and getting over them. Not that i always manage it successfully as i often have a list of excuses ready to use as to why i have not done this/that or the other...

So on that note i have started to make a little priority list of three things i will do regarding jobs..after that i then go down the list ticking off things..It is beginning to work a bit.

Not put on here as i think i write enough dribble, but i do write it in my diary.(This is work related stuff!As in job application, follow up phone calls etc)

So if that all makes sense, it then seems to me that i have achieved three positive things for the day.

Karmacat

Thanks Bob! I could feel it happening, actualy, last Friday, getting over that wall - its about breaking the *habit* of not doing it. And I think I've broken it. I need to solidify that, of course - and I need to be able to carry on trading when I've followed a signal and it *hasn't* worked, which will happen sooner or later, of course it will.

I'm glad to hear we have that connection on the whole issue of facing fear. I don't do it for the sake of it, but if I need to, then I will, no matter what.

And day to day .... priorities, you're right, thats what matters. I'm hopping over to your thread to see what you've written, see you in a minute....