Is it really THAT important to own your own home?

carolt

Thanks for your helpful post, pinkshoes - when issues have been discussed, I actually think we agree on nearly every point!

Although I agree with Lavendyr that your analogy is a bit ropey, I take your point.

I think, ultimately, we're coming from different angles - you saved up bloody hard to buy your 270K house - recently, I take it? - and are rightfully proud of yourself for doing so, and also probably a little concerned at all the recent news of imminent price crashes, as you don't want to feel that if you'd only waited a bit, you could have worked a damn sight less hard! I, on the other hand, got let down over a problem with a house I was trying to buy for 275K in February - which would have been a VERY high stretch if it had gone through, and decided that enough was enough, and we were going to make the active decision to rent.

So, far from metaphorically "cuddling the petrol pump and sobbing!", I have embraced my rented position, having actively decided it is currently (financially) preferable to buying. Although that doesn't mean that I wouldn't like to see a return to the situation where FTB's in all parts of the country have the option, financially to buy, instead of it being an unattainably elusive goal...

It DOES mean, obviously, that I view the prospect of prices falling back to historic levels with rather greater equanimity than you do...

pinkshoes

Lavendyr wrote: »

The analogy really does not work, though, because obviously many people who can't buy houses are finding another way to have a roof over their heads - by renting.

It wasn't an analogy, it was an example... just pointing out that you can either sit on your bum and whine about the current situation, or adapt.

Whether high prices are sustainable or not doesn't matter, because at the moment house prices are high, and in many areas there's more factors supporting the house prices than indicating that they're gonna drop, so you can't spend your life wishing that they're going to drop when it's out of your hands... You can just make the best of a lousy situation!

Renting isn't the only option. You can live with family! Not ideal, and will require some/many sacrifices, but a great way to save money. And you are implying that you think it's your right to buy a home... i.e. you WANT to buy a home... maybe you need to remove those assumptions? TVs used to be a luxury, now everyone has one. Owning a house used to be common, but now is becoming a luxury.

Lavendyr wrote: »

But the point is that the reason they cannot buy houses is because those already on the housing market can afford to pay more and buy more than their "fair share" of houses.

not true. Just coz I'm now on the ladder doesn't mean I'll be able to sell in a few years and buy a 3 bed house with garden!! If all house prices keep rising, it will be just as much of a struggle for me to get onto the next rung... but I'll cross that bridge when i get to it. For now it's not an option! Of course some people did well out of property, but some people did well on the stock market too! You have to be in it to win it. Maybe a relative dying left them enough money to get started?! Lucky/unlucky them (depending on whether they'd rather have the relative alive or the money!).

it's just life... and too short to waste it being envious over what others have and you don't. just enjoy wot yer got!

carolt

pickles110564 wrote: »

Luck? You aint got a scooby doo.
We just bought our last house for 350k and by the time I have been out to work for my 48hr week and then spent every other free minute extending and renovating it, it will be worth close to 500k.
It is not Luck, just spending hours doing the correct research then bloody hard sweat and tears.
We started with a grand deposit just over 13 years ago.
When you worked abroad on higher wages did you not think about saving some for when you returned home?
Like I said before you make your own luck, stop moaning and get a good Plan together and make a sucess of yourself.

No I haven't got a scooby doo - my daughter has, though....

I can't wait till you discover your house is not worth 'close to 500K', but somewhat less than you paid for it. I'm looking forward to your posts in a year or two about how unfair it is that property prices have the gall to fall as well as rise....

LUCKY you - started with a grand deposit 13 years ago. How many FTB's can start with a grand deposit these days? The AVERAGE deposit (ie many are higher) of a London-based FTB last year was, I believe, over 40 grand. And 13 years ago - that wouldn't be 1994, the bottom of the housing market, when houses were much cheaper than historic averages, would it?

Hard work - you think you're the only one working 48 hour weeks?

No, you were LUCKY by an accident of timing, but you're stupid/arrogant enough to imagine it's down to your hard work or clever planning.

Of course you're scared of posts threatening house prices will fall, because you stand to lose so much. I, on the other hand, admit to enjoying it immensely. A touch of schadenfreude (look it up, pickles110564 - I know it's a long word and difficult for one who writes 'yourselfs':D), I admit.

But difficult to resist.....

inmypocketnottheirs

pickles110564 wrote: »

Luck? You aint got a scooby doo.
We just bought our last house for 350k and by the time I have been out to work for my 48hr week and then spent every other free minute extending and renovating it, it will be worth close to 500k.
It is not Luck, just spending hours doing the correct research then bloody hard sweat and tears.
We started with a grand deposit just over 13 years ago.
When you worked abroad on higher wages did you not think about saving some for when you returned home?
Like I said before you make your own luck, stop moaning and get a good Plan together and make a sucess of yourself.

Well said. Those that don't have just like to try and needle those that do.

To try and help open they eyes of those that will not see, there is no such thing as luck. It is merely an acronym:

Labour
Under
Controlled
Knowledge

:T

pinkshoes

carolt wrote: »

you saved up bloody hard to buy your 270K house - recently, I take it?

about 7 months ago! Although I did get a head start with the savings by taking out the full student loan and investing some of it:rotfl: as it would have been daft not to! and certainly not £270k!! That would have required robbing a bank!!! It was nearer the £200k mark... but the saving was worth it! (and joint purchase with OH!)

carolt wrote: »

It DOES mean, obviously, that I view the prospect of prices falling back to historic levels with rather greater equanimity than you do...

Surprisingly no, as I have no plans to sell it for a LONG time, so any price changes short/medium term won't affect me. Although I do feel sorry for people who have bought with a 100% mortgage or on interest only. TBH I have absolutely no faith in state pensions, so owning a property is my way of funding my old age, as well as combatting the insecurity of renting.

If I didn't find renting so insecure, then I wouldn't have minded it so much! A landlord like pickles giving a fixed rent for several years would have been ideal!

carolt

pinkshoes, would again agree with you, that you have to make the best of what you've got. That's what I and Lavendyr and countless others around the country are doing, in the way we believe is currently the most financially sensible - renting. You did the same and plumped for buying. That is where we differ. Your decision was presumably correct for you - or so you believed when you made it - just as ours is for us.

However, try and appreciate that, for me at least, part of making the best of the current situation is to use what limited sway we have ie very little, to do our bit to create the kind of society we would like to see. Not having access to a lot of property developers, billionaires or government ministers, I post here to express my views about property, in the hope of helping others making the same choices we have all made.

We're not going to agree on everything - fundamentally we have different wishes for where we hope the housing market is headed, and can both, I'm sure quote evidence to support our views. Although, I'm not even sure about that - as you pointed out yourself, you too would be benefitted by falling prices when it comes to trading up...

carolt

inmypocketnottheirs wrote: »

Well said. Those that don't have just like to try and needle those that do.

To try and help open they eyes of those that will not see, there is no such thing as luck. It is merely an acronym:

Labour
Under
Controlled
Knowledge

:T

How about

Lying
Underhand
Cheating
Knocking others?

Just a suggestion?....

do_it_today!

Very creative I think the LUCK Acronym could go both ways

pinkshoes

carolt wrote: »

However, try and appreciate that, for me at least, part of making the best of the current situation is to use what limited sway we have ie very little, to do our bit to create the kind of society we would like to see. Not having access to a lot of property developers, billionaires or government ministers, I post here to express my views about property, in the hope of helping others making the same choices we have all made.

We're not going to agree on everything - fundamentally we have different wishes for where we hope the housing market is headed, and can both, I'm sure quote evidence to support our views. Although, I'm not even sure about that - as you pointed out yourself, you too would be benefitted by falling prices when it comes to trading up...

I actually think we both have similar views... I was in the same position as you a few years ago!!!

I just take the view that some things can't be changed easily and are more wishful thinking than changeable, and it's often the best option to try and tackle these issues from a different/tangent angle i.e:


1) restricting the number of BTL properties allowed (allow 1 BTL, and any 2nd, 3rd etc... is very heavily taxed)

2) giving FTBs and those who wish to live in a property priority over those buying for BTL market

3) bigger tax breaks for those who earn "normal" wages but not entitled to any benefits as they are deemed to earn too much.

4) More rights for tenants who pay their rent on time each month i.e. fixed increases in rent, longer tenancies if required, more notice from LL if they have to move out

5) Council houses only for the needy!! (hmmm, tangent rant here, coz i know quite a few people who have had big changes in financial circumstances but don't have to move out of their council house, despite the huge queues from those who genuinely require one!).

pickles110564

carolt wrote: »

LUCKY you - started with a grand deposit 13 years ago. How many FTB's can start with a grand deposit these days? The AVERAGE deposit (ie many are higher) of a London-based FTB last year was, I believe, over 40 grand. And 13 years ago - that wouldn't be 1994, the bottom of the housing market, when houses were much cheaper than historic averages, would it?


Of course you're scared of posts threatening house prices will fall, because you stand to lose so much.

You still don't get the point do you.
A grand was alot of money back then. Like I said if you do your research you will not get hurt by falling prices.
The area that we renovate in, can not get enough staff to fill the high paid jobs for this region. There is not enough property for the young to rent, so we get very good rates for our BTL's. But there is always a good supply of run down properties if you want to put the hard work and effort into.
If you are so clever (after all you don't make any spelling mistakes) why did you not put your hands down your trousers and grab a hold so that you could take advantage of the bottom of the market.
You will keep telling yourself that a huge crash is going to come and that you must not be so stupid this time!
But if it comes, remember that there will be loads of people in your position trying to guage the same thing.
Plus all us LL's looking for loads more of rental stock.How long will it stay at the bottom before it runs away again?