Is it really THAT important to own your own home?

HugoSP

I'm actually unusual in that I've never been a long term tenant. Having said that, meeting mortgage payments at times has been just as hard as meeting rent. Ultimately, if you don't pay the mortgage, your security of tenure is worth JS. Coupled with the fact that you are responsible for reapairs etc, and in the wrong cliamate you could end up in debt without any funds to pay it off (negative equity being repossessed etc).

My upbringing centred around home ownership. I came from a middle class set who all owned their homes, so we have never known any different.

Our tenants basically have everything they need, and I'm sure they will know they are well off if they read some of these posts. Being a fair LL probably costs us money in the short term but then we have not had a gap in tenancies for several years. The last tenant who served notice actually referred her friends to us as new tenants.

I would say that private tenants are much more at the whim of other people, who can make snap decisions about rents, notice to quit, repairs etc. Each LL is different and it really is a lottery as to the place you get and the care that is extended to you.

We review our rents annually and some are obviously keen to know what the likely increases are going to be. The fact is that we can't tell them 12 months in advance as we don't know in what a fair rent will be that far in advance, whereas a homeowner may know for up to 5 years what his mortgage payments will be.

Also, it is true to say that repairs are the responsibility of the LL but, as some of you have experienced, getting the LL to carry them out in a timely manner is another thing. Some tenants may consider it an easier option to take matters into their own hands even if they have to pay for it. That is not right IMO. Quite apart from the fact that some tenants can make matters much worse when they try.

lieutenant_dan

spot on carolt. That's the thing that really grates me, the btl investors aren't making money through ingenuity, it is pure luck. It's a gravy train which has got longer and longer with people hopping on board trying to make an easy buck. But the implications of this are someone, somewhere else who is being deprived of their right to own their own home and even to start their own family. The btl already have their own homes, and are causing damage two fold, denying others the opportunity to do likewise through shortage of properties, whilst also artificially inflating market prices to totally unrealistic levels for those who do want to buy, but can't.

This reminds me a lot of the stock market boom and then bust. That went artificially high too in the tech companies boom. I felt sympathy for those who had their fingers burnt in that. I will have no sympathy for any btl investors who lose money if/when prices come down or there is even a crash. Plenty of other ways to make money than to buy houses you won't even live in personally, and to effectively exploit others.

carolt

Thanks for calming down the tone, and referring to the matter in hand, HugoSP!

I think few people would disagree with you that renting generally offers less long-term security than buying. (Though obviously, for those who value flexibility over long-term security, such as those whose work may require them to move for example, this is not an issue.) The problem is that this general rule has almost ceased to apply, except for those who already have large amounts of existing equity/cash to put into their properties, because we live in exceptional times.

With house prices at record highs, it is now riskier to buy and struggle to pay even an interest-only mortgage - which is just renting off the bank, after all - than to rent at vastly lower prices, and save up the difference.

Sad but true. Of course, this may only be a short term problem if house prices react in the logical fashion ie fall until it ceases to be much less risky to buy than to rent.. but then house prices are not always logical, as they are driven by sentiment not logic....

We shall see....

pickles110564

Lavendyr wrote: »

So yes, theoretically we could "get on the ladder" but we have to think of what makes most financial sense, not just in the short term but over the next few years - as opposed to giving into the "must get onto the ladder" mentality.

Why not get on your bike look for jobs in another part of the country that is not so expensive to buy and rough to live.
you make your own choices in life so get on and make something of yourselves.

lieutenant_dan

no, taking all these measures is ludicrous. Why shouldn't your average earning person be able to afford their own average priced home in the area they already live in without having to resort to drastic measures like relocating miles away from friends and family purely because it's cheaper?

But I'm starting to sense you may be a wind up merchant and not for real anyway pickles

carolt

pickles110564 wrote: »

Why not get on your bike look for jobs in another part of the country that is not so expensive to buy and rough to live.
you make your own choices in life so get on and make something of yourselves.

Did you really say that, pickles110564?! Now, where have I heard that phrase before....let me see....ooh, and what happened to him?

Didn't know former Tory ministers were reduced to posting on this forum.....

HugoSP

lieutenant_dan wrote: »

spot on carolt. That's the thing that really grates me, the btl investors aren't making money through ingenuity, it is pure luck.

I thought your thread started out well but I am disappointed to find that the BTL investor has found himself the subject of unjustice at your hands.

BTL investors are investors like anyone else, employers, stockbrokers, even small business owners. They are all people who have taken on board risk. Yet they all affect markets that supply to them and make it harder/more expensive for buyers in that particular market.

For example, a restraunt owner buys ingrediants and pushes up the price of staples - yet I don't see a purge on here against restraunteurs. A garage owner buys oil and pushes up the price of petrol/diesel at the pumps, as do taxi drivers, lorry drivers, ambulance drivers and undertakers. Lets all go out and have a bash at them shall we???!!!

After all, with diesel at over £1 per litre they should have more social concience than to go about their business consuming it shouldn't they, especially when you are trying to scrape together precious pennies to go to work. Heaven forbid the ambulance service rushing though the town centre with blues and twos to attend an accident, and being most recless with their fuel and driving up the cost for you and I.

No, depsite the fact that every business in this country has an affect on supply and demand for any commodity you can think of, some people still go for BTL bashing above all others. I think this is because in general LLs have a bad name in this country, and to a certain extent, it is justified. But there are those who can't seem to distinguish between poor letting practices and their own prejudices towards 'capitalism'. The fact is that virtually everyone here will try and play the game to their advantage if they have to, by either investing or saving. After all what brought each of us to this forum in the first place? If we can buy something for £1 and sell it for £2 we will. some of us do BTL, others sell on e bay, others do carboots or invest in stocks. We are all capatilists I'm afraid.

The money tied up in our properties could probably be earning a better rate from the banks than the tenants pay us in rent but we still choose to invest in property instead - why?

Well we look to the longer term. All the properties we have taken on board to date bar one needed quite a bit of work doing to them. One was completely unmortgageable and would probably have been empty for several years had we not bought it. We brought it back into the housing stock and later provided an elderly lady with a roof over her head when her previous LL wanted to sell.

Our tenants are paying less rent than a mortgage for a similar houses would cost, that is one of the reasons why they are tenants. One tenant couldn't even buy his own home if he wanted to - he's on HB because he is unable to work. if he didn't rent from me he would have to find another private LL as there is no social housing available for him. Without BTL investors he would be homeless. Another set of tenants have recently arrived back from Peru. They choose to be tenants because they have hopped around the globe on work related travel. Owning a house simply wouldn't suit them. We are providing a quality service, just as any other business would do to survive.

Rant over

lieutenant_dan

Nonsense. And sorry, but yes, I am anti btl investors, due to the knock on effect caused to people like myself.

You're "providing a service", rentors "pay less on rent than the equivalent mortgage for the same property". This is all a fallout from the way btl investors have distorted the housing market in the first place.

This service you're providing, has it ever occurred to you that people aren't renting through choice? I always hear this from btl investors, our tenants are happy etc, don't kid yourself to sleep at night. Some people do choose to rent for whatever reason, many do not. As if people generally really want to pay towards someone else's mortgage, get real. As a businessman, if you were on the other side of this fence, would you see the logic in paying out high rental prices, of basically "dead money" with no return on it?

Let's not forget that the many people being deprived of buying a house due mainly to the market distortion are just simply looking for a home (something you have already), what all working people should be entitled to have the chance of, not looking at it in monetary terms of potential future gains (unless in the event of upgrading)

It's wrong, there's plenty of other business opportunites to get involved in.
There WILL be serious knock on effects too in years to come if this situation doesn't get any better. What is this nonsense? People owning their own residence and sometimes up to 10 or 20 other houses. Ludicrous.

Quite frankly I'm p*ssing myself at a lot of what you've written, you've even worked the obligatory helpless little old lady into the equation, and your examples of other businesses are irrelevant to this debate, but again, whatever helps you to sleep at night.

You're in it for yourself basically and capitalising on circumstances, this may sound very harsh, but I'll have no sympathy whatsoever if/when it turns and btl investors get caught out. If for no other reason than the btl investor will generally already be in their own home. Many stuck on the outside of the housing market now do not have that luxury.

Then again your feelings on this debate entirely depend on if you've bought, when you've bought, or if you've gotten in on the btl.

Eyesparky

Totally agree HugoSP.

SquatNow

pinkshoes wrote: »

I spent 9 years renting shared accomodation, most of it was sacrificing luxury for cheap rent! I shared 1 house with 6 girls, depite the house originally being a 2 bed end terrace!!

I'de be happy to share a small house with 6 girls. In fact, I'de pay extra....