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Is it really THAT important to own your own home?
Comments
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Just to back up my argument, from yesterday's Sunday Times:
...some homeowners who were planning to sell are now expected to bring forward their plans while the market remains relatively buoyant.
Liam Bailey at Knight Frank, an estate agency, said: “Some people are definitely bringing things forward and selling now because they think the market will weaken. If you need to sell this may be worth doing, but if you don’t, you may decide to stay put.”
On the other hand, families who are under no pressure to move are putting their plans on hold, which will depress demand further.
Jo Freegard, 37, pictured with her two sons, James, three, and 16-month old Max, was planning to move next year, but is now waiting to see what happens to the market.
Jo and her husband Simon live near Guild-ford in Surrey. She said: “We were planning to put the house on the market in the new year, but given the current climate we’re beginning to think twice. We would like somewhere slightly larger, but we are fortunate that we don’t have to move.”0 -
There was no sarcasm intended in my comment about the ME ME ME culture! In the past, people asked themselves the question "How long will it take me to save up for that?", and nowadays people ask "How much can I borrow and how long will it take me to pay back?"
Buying a house was important to me, as I like the security that comes with it, so for the last few years I've lived in cheap shared rented accomodation to save a decent deposit! Ok, so I couldn't/still can't have a giant plasma tv, expensive holidays, lots of clothes, nice car, ipod, eating out frequently, getting drunk on champagne in posh bars or 6-weekly hair cuts (that's supposed to mean 1 every 6 weeks, not 6 every 1 week!), but to be honest I don't care, because I know I can't have everything, so I prioritise to get the thing that means most to me!
Turnbull2000 wrote: »That's quite frankly a load of rubbish.Turnbull2000 wrote: »
What people expect is the same living standards and affordability that were available to an average earner and prior generations as recently as 2003.
If Western society can't be progressive for the benefit of all, it should at least remain stable and offer the same opportunities to those that follow.
Define progressive benefit of all?!? In China, families are so desparate for a son because it's the son who looks after the parents/grandparents in old age, and it's now the norm to have 3 generations under one roof. It IS progression, because it's practical for the current way of life! You just proved the attitude of "want want want" by saying what people expect, rather than people willing to adapt to change.
If we suddenly run out of petrol in the world (hypothetical! just say it all spontaneously combusts, no one dies tho! please use your imagination here!), are you gonna have a tantrum at the local petrol station because you want to drive your car to work, or are you gonna find an alternative method to get there and adapt to the new situation?!!?Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')
No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)0 -
I don't think a lot of them asked the part I highlighted..... In the past, people asked themselves the question "How long will it take me to save up for that?", and nowadays people ask "How much can I borrow and how long will it take me to pay back?"....A house isn't a home without a cat.
Those are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others.
I have writer's block - I can't begin to tell you about it.
You told me again you preferred handsome men but for me you would make an exception.
It's a recession when your neighbour loses his job; it's a depression when you lose yours.0 -
Thanks for explaining your original post, pinkshoes.
The problems with your analogy, are twofold. Firstly, as I explained elsewhere, petrol is not an essential to human survival in the same way that having a roof over one's head is (in the British climate at least) - you can walk/cycle/use biofuels etc, but you can't live in a tent in midwinter or expect families to sleep in the streets. Secondly, in your analogy, all the petrol had run out - the problem isn't that houses have run out - after all, there AREN'T millions of homeless people sleeping on the streets - but that the ownership of property and thus the conditions under which those who live there have to put up with, has become concentrated in the hands of a rentier class, who due to their existing equity and favourable tax regime, are able to buy homes that would previously have been owner-occupied and rent them back to the very same people who would, in a healthy property market with prices at normal levels re incomes, be homeowners themselves - but have been priced out.
That's why many on this thread argue that there are endemic problems in the housing market that need to be addressed, rather than just individual would-be FTB's buckling down and saving hard.
Either property prices need to fall relative to incomes, so that potential FTB's can once again dream of being able to do what you suggest (and it looks like the market is starting to turn to achieve that), or tenants' rights need to return to the levels they used to be (and which council tenants still enjoy), so that private tenants can enjoy a reasonable security of tenure and freedom from worrying about being turfed out/having rents raised with no notice. To me, it is a health/quality of life issue. As I stated, to me it is more akin to the health service, as a basic human need, and therefore one which should not be dependent purely on market forces. In fact, if it was dependent purely on market forces, it wouldn't be so bad. A large part of the problem is that one G Brown has continually moved the goalposts to prop up the ailing housing market - with interest rate cuts, the SIPPS fiasco, the CGT fiddle last week.... Left to itself, without artificial constraints on planning and tax breaks for BTL landlords, there would be no housing boom, or much less of one.
As I and others explained, pinkshoes, we're not knocking your and others' hard work and hard saving - it's just a bit much to assume that those who haven't been able to buy are, by contrast, those who haven't worked or saved up.
You are drawing a conclusion that the facts do not support. It may be that where you live, pinkshoes, buying a house for a hard-working, thrifty individual is still possible. But in large swathes of the country, ie all the South East, it has not been possible for many years. Don't forget how many have jobs that tie them to London or commuting distance from it - they would simply not be able to get a mortgage of any description if they lived elsewhere.0 -
Firstly, I in no way implied that petrol was vital to human life!!! It's merely used as an example of adapting to change! i.e. if you HAVE to go to work, and can't use your car, you'd find another way to get there rather than cuddling the petrol pump and sobbing!
Yes, indeed it is frustrating that house prices are so high and out of reach for so many, but you can't live your life wishing/hoping that they are going to drop 40% or whatever! You need to adapt to the current situation and live for the here and now.
Renting wouldn't be so bad if good tenants that paid their rent on time every month were given more rights i.e. long tenancy agreements, so that you don't find yourself settled one minute, then uprooted the next due to the owner selling the house or whatever reason.
It would also be nice if houses that came onto the market were offered only to those buying them to live in them, and if they hadn't sold after a couple of months, THEN they can be sold to someone wanting a buy-to-let property. Obviously that wouldn't reduce prices, but it would give first time buyers a fair chance to get themselves a home and not having to compete against BTL investors who often buy without even looking or requiring time to think!
I do understand your point, but I think you still need to differentiate between being realistic and idealistic!
ps - Oxfordshire counts as South-East, and average prices here are around £270k, so buying certainly wasn't easy!!Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')
No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)0 -
You really don't get it, do you? NO MATTER HOW HARD WE WORKED AND SAVED UP, OUR HOUSE PRICES WOULD STILL BE 3 TIMES THE PRICES YOU PAID, IN REAL TERMS!!!!!
Instead of criticising others, on no grounds whatsoever, try appreciating your good fortune for what it is.
LUCK.
Luck? You aint got a scooby doo.
We just bought our last house for 350k and by the time I have been out to work for my 48hr week and then spent every other free minute extending and renovating it, it will be worth close to 500k.
It is not Luck, just spending hours doing the correct research then bloody hard sweat and tears.
We started with a grand deposit just over 13 years ago.
When you worked abroad on higher wages did you not think about saving some for when you returned home?
Like I said before you make your own luck, stop moaning and get a good Plan together and make a sucess of yourself.0 -
The analogy really does not work, though, because obviously many people who can't buy houses are finding another way to have a roof over their heads - by renting. But the point is that the reason they cannot buy houses is because those already on the housing market can afford to pay more and buy more than their "fair share" of houses. By buying up the market, they drive up the prices and actually block people who would buy houses, from doing so. It's not a situation you can simply blame on "young people today" not saving properly or working hard enough (though I'm sure there are some situations where that is the case). Exactly as carolt said above.Firstly, I in no way implied that petrol was vital to human life!!! It's merely used as an example of adapting to change! i.e. if you HAVE to go to work, and can't use your car, you'd find another way to get there rather than cuddling the petrol pump and sobbing!
Of course, and the vast majority of people have adapted in one way or another, whether by renting cheaply and saving towards a bigger deposit or by struggling onto the ladder however they can, but it remains the fact that house prices at their current level cannot be sustainable.Yes, indeed it is frustrating that house prices are so high and out of reach for so many, but you can't live your life wishing/hoping that they are going to drop 40% or whatever! You need to adapt to the current situation and live for the here and now.
As a good tenant who always pays rent on time, reports faults as soon as they arise and takes good care of rental properties, I absolutely agree with this. We are currently in a 6-month initial contract which will become periodic after the 6 months is up, and we would love a longer agreement - sadly, I don't think it will happen.Renting wouldn't be so bad if good tenants that paid their rent on time every month were given more rights i.e. long tenancy agreements, so that you don't find yourself settled one minute, then uprooted the next due to the owner selling the house or whatever reason.0 -
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As a good tenant who always pays rent on time, reports faults as soon as they arise and takes good care of rental properties, I absolutely agree with this.[/size][/font] We are currently in a 6-month initial contract which will become periodic after the 6 months is up, and we would love a longer agreement - sadly, I don't think it will happen.
Rent from me and as long as you pay on time every month I will do you a 20 year contract at today's rates.:beer:0 -
Define progressive benefit of all?!? In China, families are so desparate for a son because it's the son who looks after the parents/grandparents in old age, and it's now the norm to have 3 generations under one roof. It IS progression, because it's practical for the current way of life! You just proved the attitude of "want want want" by saying what people expect, rather than people willing to adapt to change.
Western society. China does not fall into this category.
Define benefit of all? I already did.
So there you have it. The "want want want" attitude has been proved beyond doubt, because this first generation to face no job security, eradicated pension choices, student debt and all time high house prices have the cheek to expect more than the natives of Communist China - a nation that imprisons those who speak out.:rotfl:people expect is the same living standards and affordability that were available to an average earner and prior generationsHi, we’ve had to remove your signature. If you’re not sure why please read the forum rules or email the forum team if you’re still unsure - MSE ForumTeam0
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