Claim form received CEL

Loadsofchildren123

Kdub wrote: »

I have printed out the attendance email and was going to write a letter to CEL with the email from the gym and ask them to cancel the court claim.

Is this futile? Should I just save it for the defence?

what do you rely on to say gym users get 2 hours rather than 1? Is that on the signage? If not, where does it come from? is it an agreement between the gym and CEL? You need to provide evidence that the driver was entitled to 2 hours parking under the t&cs.

Kellogsk

I have managed to get a letter on headed paper from Easy gym. It says....


To Whom It May Concern:


PCN Number: XXXXXXXXX

Please accept this letter as written confirmation that our records show Miss XXX XXXX was registered as a member at our Birmingham Kings Heath Club for the period xx/xx/16 - xx/xx/2017.


All members at our Kings Heath Club are allocated a period of 2 hours of free parking.


For the 2 hour free parking period to be assigned, our members are required to enter their car registration number into a computerised terminal located within the Club. Miss XXXX has assured us that she entered her registration on xxth Month 2017 as she had done previously on all attendances.


We would also like to confirm that we have attendance recorded for the date in relation to the PCN that was issued to her on xxth Month 2017, please see the log from our database below:


xxMonth 2017 Wed 00:00
Birmingham Kings Heath
Turnstile 2 In
Valid PIN




xxMonth 2017 Wed 00:00
Birmingham Kings Heath
Turnstile 2 Out
Valid PIN








You will note that the times recorded show she was at the Club for a period of less than 2 hours and that they are within minutes of times recorded on the PCN of her entering and exiting the card park.



We would kindly request that you take all the above information into consideration when considering any appeal of this fine.

Yours faithfully,


easyGym Customer Services

Kellogsk

The gym have informed me that they do not have access to the system where you enter your reg, it is the parking company.


If the reg was entered incorrectly that day, or had been forgotten, and they can prove that. Would this make the above details in the letter irrelevant?


It also states on their website that you get 2 hours free parking at that site.

Loadsofchildren123

whose website? The gym's?


Ask them to inspect their log within say a 10 minute time slot of you entering the car park and to disclose any entries which show your VRN or anything similar (in the case of a small mistake). A small, human error would be "de minimis" which you could argue in any claim. They'll argue data protection, but they can redact say the 2nd half of any non-similar VRN to cover that

Kellogsk

Yes, the gym website states 2 hours free parking. Will the letter from the gym help at all?

I will write to CEL asking for the information you suggest regarding the vrn although I!!!8217;m not sure I will get it in time.

I am going to submit my defence by this Friday as I will be abroad for a week and I don!!!8217;t want to risk missing any deadlines. Hopefully the gym contract and letter will be enough.

[Deleted User]

There is no breach. As a gym user parking:

* on land operated by or in an area within the control of the gym,
* who was offered a license to use the gym and to park a motor vehicle for up to 2 hours at a time
* and for which you paid a monthly consideration and
* Where there is proof that on the material dates the vehicle did not overstay

You may ask yourself on what basis (at all) a parking charge is levied.

Unless the gym contract specifically makes parking contingent upon typing in a full and complete registration otherwise no entitlement to park is offered, the ANPR machine is a mechanism to monitor parking (and a fallible one) not part of the contract that you have.

You will want to disclose your letter, gym contract and any signs showing that you had 2 hrs entitlement.

Your defence should deal with the de minimis/typo point and the claimant put to proof that there is no similar registration at or around time.

There is no loss as you were a genuine customer within the permitted period.

Loadsofchildren123

You can ask CEL but I agree they won't provide it. Ask anyway. Then put it in your defence. You'd then expect them to deal with the issue in their evidence (and if they don't you can say they haven't proved that you didn't comply with their T&Cs by not entering your VRN).


Your primary defence is as Johnersh says - that your contract to park existed with the gym not with CEL and CEL can't override it by imposing new/different conditions.


I think I'm right in saying the signs say nothing about the 2 hours, but you can show that this is what the gym offers in its t&cs, and you can prove that, so you rely on that to say the contract to park was made with the gym, not CEL, and the CEL T&Cs set out in the signs therefore didn't apply to you because you already had pre-existing rights to park.


The argument is similar to an employee car park where your right to park is granted by your employer, but they then use a PPC to operate the car park. The argument is that your right to park is with the employer, not the PPC, and the PPC T&Cs (insofar as they differ to the employer's) don't apply - this is set out in my Admiral car park thread which you could search for and I think I posted a draft defence there setting out how to argue the contractual point. In that case I wrote a LBC to the employer, you could write a similar letter to the gym to say they are in breach of the contract with you in allowing a PPC to ticket you for parking for over an hour, and that you will sue them for any losses (this may make them more inclined to fight with CEL to cancel the PCN and withdraw the proceedings).

Kellogsk

So I think I have messed up I thought I had 28 days to file the defence from the date you acknowledge the claim. Not from the issue date of the claim form.

I was going to submit before I went away but didn’t want to rush it so I waited. Now realised it is almost a full week past the 28 days from issue date.

Is it worth me submitting the defence online still or is it now a lost cause? So annoyed and upset with myself :mad:

KeithP

You have thirty three days from the Claim Form issue date - that's the 28 days plus 5 for service.

Get it in as quickly as you can, now, this evening, to the CCBCAQ email address.

Redx

make sure it is printed , signed and dated , scanned back to pdf , then email it to the CCBC email address