Sainsburys disability discrimination

UN17ED

I would like to say how upset and angry I am over my local Sainsburys who have banned my daughter for no reason and will not speak to any of us as to why she has been banned.

She has severe ocd and this shop was the only place she would shop, she won't do online shopping and won't let anyone else go shopping for her.

Shopping for her is a stressful thing because she doesn't like people to go near her trolley, it takes her ages to choose her items as she has to make sure there's nothing wrong with it. She has to wipe every item with cleaning wipes as well and will only use self service and then only certain ones.

There has been a few incidents when despite all the staff knowing she has it and not to go near her have done and have sprayed cleaning stuff near her food, or gone near her food or even touched it and my daughter has got upset because she will not have any of it.

We went in there pretty much everyday because of my daughters ocd and would constantly get stared at and we've also been wrongly accused of stealing shopping and also using someone else's bank card.

I think the thing that led to her being banned was because we went to pay for her shopping and noticed the self service area had been shut down half hour early and when I asked a member of staff why was told because the on duty manager had told them to shut it early because she wanted to leave at 10 when the store shut.

The member of staff knew us and was understanding about my daughter and always went out of her way to help and explained that they couldn't open any self service tills until next day and that she was really sorry because she knew that my daughter wouldn't be able to eat.

We had to wait to speak to the on duty manager and on the mean time my daughter went around and put all her items of food back and after she finished the on duty manager spoke to us and said the self service area had been shut because there had been problems with the tills all day, something we know was a lie due ro the member of staff that actually worked in that bit that I previously mentioned.

It was 3 minutes past 10 when we had finally put certain bits through a normal till and we left the store, my daughter was upset and didn't eat that night.

I put in a complaint and was told that we didn't get to the self service till according to cctv until 10-10, I replied that was incorrect and that we didn't even go near the self service because I could see from the other end of the sore that it was closed and that it was a quarter to 10 when we had approached the member of staff and this was not near the self service area.

I tried to say I had a copy of the receipt which showed the time as 3 minutes past 10 but customer services wouldn't budge from the answer of cctv showed 10-10. /I was advised to speak to the store manager and when I eventually got to speak to him after a few days of being told he would ring me back told me that she was banned from the store and would not speak any further about it and hung up.

This now meant my daughter couldn't eat because of her illness it was the only shop she would get her food from, so I took the complaint to head office explained my daughter couldn't eat and they said they would get back to me,

It took a week of pressing them to get the answer that nothing had changed and that the ban was upheld and they had nothing more to say. At this point my daughter hadn't eaten for 7 days and as a family we were worried.

I'm sorry for the long post but it has taken us as a family a long time to be able with help from local health services to get her to shop at another store but it caused a lot of distress and still does because she wants to shop there but she can't because of a ban we have no reason why other than to think it is to do with her severe ocd which is surely discrimination due to disability.

DCFC79

UN17ED wrote: »

I would like to say how upset and angry I am over my local Sainsburys who have banned my daughter for no reason and will not speak to any of us as to why she has been banned.

She has severe ocd and this shop was the only place she would shop, she won't do online shopping and won't let anyone else go shopping for her.

Shopping for her is a stressful thing because she doesn't like people to go near her trolley, it takes her ages to choose her items as she has to make sure there's nothing wrong with it. She has to wipe every item with cleaning wipes as well and will only use self service and then only certain ones.

There has been a few incidents when despite all the staff knowing she has it and not to go near her have done and have sprayed cleaning stuff near her food, or gone near her food or even touched it and my daughter has got upset because she will not have any of it.

We went in there pretty much everyday because of my daughters ocd and would constantly get stared at and we've also been wrongly accused of stealing shopping and also using someone else's bank card.

I think the thing that led to her being banned was because we went to pay for her shopping and noticed the self service area had been shut down half hour early and when I asked a member of staff why was told because the on duty manager had told them to shut it early because she wanted to leave at 10 when the store shut.

The member of staff knew us and was understanding about my daughter and always went out of her way to help and explained that they couldn't open any self service tills until next day and that she was really sorry because she knew that my daughter wouldn't be able to eat.

We had to wait to speak to the on duty manager and on the mean time my daughter went around and put all her items of food back and after she finished the on duty manager spoke to us and said the self service area had been shut because there had been problems with the tills all day, something we know was a lie due ro the member of staff that actually worked in that bit that I previously mentioned.

It was 3 minutes past 10 when we had finally put certain bits through a normal till and we left the store, my daughter was upset and didn't eat that night.

I put in a complaint and was told that we didn't get to the self service till according to cctv until 10-10, I replied that was incorrect and that we didn't even go near the self service because I could see from the other end of the sore that it was closed and that it was a quarter to 10 when we had approached the member of staff and this was not near the self service area.

I tried to say I had a copy of the receipt which showed the time as 3 minutes past 10 but customer services wouldn't budge from the answer of cctv showed 10-10. /I was advised to speak to the store manager and when I eventually got to speak to him after a few days of being told he would ring me back told me that she was banned from the store and would not speak any further about it and hung up.

This now meant my daughter couldn't eat because of her illness it was the only shop she would get her food from, so I took the complaint to head office explained my daughter couldn't eat and they said they would get back to me,

It took a week of pressing them to get the answer that nothing had changed and that the ban was upheld and they had nothing more to say. At this point my daughter hadn't eaten for 7 days and as a family we were worried.

I'm sorry for the long post but it has taken us as a family a long time to be able with help from local health services to get her to shop at another store but it caused a lot of distress and still does because she wants to shop there but she can't because of a ban we have no reason why other than to think it is to do with her severe ocd which is surely discrimination due to disability.

Not sure what to make of this.

I cant see the ban being due to a complaint about the tills. Your daughter doesn't like other people going near her trolley, so how does she stop other customers or staff going near it ?

maninthestreet

You can hardly blame Sainsburys because your daughter refuses to eat.

z1a

They can ban whoever they like without explanation.

McKneff

Is your daughter getting any help medically .

Hermione_Granger

z1a wrote: »

They can ban whoever they like without explanation.

Unless that ban is based on disability, religion, sexuality or race.

Ames

I can't help with Sainsbury's but is the problem that she can't go to any other shop, or that it's the only one she's tried that she can go to? Are there any others that she hasn't tried before that might possibly be manageable? I'm just thinking that a solution, even if it's temporary and very stressful, needs to be found quickly so she can eat.

Waitrose might be worth a try, they tend to be small and I've always found the staff to be helpful and understanding. They're not as expensive as people think, at least for the basics. They're not open late at night though.

Would buying dry food (cereal bars and the like) from Amazon be acceptable? if you buy a bulk load they'll probably still be in the outer carton so won't have had any more handling than stuff on the supermarket shelves. You'll be able to get them quickly too.

stuartJo1989

UN17ED wrote: »

I would like to say how upset and angry I am over my local Sainsburys who have banned my daughter for no reason and will not speak to any of us as to why she has been banned.

Surely there WILL be a reason?! People don't just ban other people from shops for no reason (mind you, I did once get banned from a bookies because the shop worker thought I was an ex employee; I wasn't!! Very weird people in the gambling industry at times).

She has severe ocd and this shop was the only place she would shop, she won't do online shopping and won't let anyone else go shopping for her.

Yea, that's really really not healthy.... If this is 100% true then she at the very minimum needs a carer to assist with shopping! But alas, I don't know how it works with OCD.

May I enquire though, but how did she end up going to this shop in the first place? Again, I don't know the specifics on OCD but I would assume that there is some sort of habit-building which may be replicable with other stores?

Shopping for her is a stressful thing because she doesn't like people to go near her trolley, it takes her ages to choose her items as she has to make sure there's nothing wrong with it. She has to wipe every item with cleaning wipes as well and will only use self service and then only certain ones.

Ok, but not something you can expect strangers to know.

There has been a few incidents when despite all the staff knowing she has it and not to go near her have done and have sprayed cleaning stuff near her food, or gone near her food or even touched it and my daughter has got upset because she will not have any of it.

How do you know that "all the staff" know she has it? Some may, others may not (turnover can be a factor).

Also, how *near* is near?! Sadly for your daughter, a stranger with no knowledge of the issue (most people) may well be at a respectable distance and be at no fault whatsoever.

(oh and a bit of a moot point, but the food in the store isn't your daughters until money exchanges hands...)

We went in there pretty much everyday because of my daughters ocd and would constantly get stared at and we've also been wrongly accused of stealing shopping and also using someone else's bank card.

The way you describe it, your daughter WOULD catch the eye of quite a few people who have zero idea about the condition. So, unless she wears a badge (derogatory), it is sadly something you have to deal with. Invisible illnesses are hard for people to pick up, especially when they are in 'flight mode' (in supermarkets). It can, and will, look suspicious compared to someone who simply puts an item in their basket and move on.

I think the thing that led to her being banned was because we went to pay for her shopping and noticed the self service area had been shut down half hour early and when I asked a member of staff why was told because the on duty manager had told them to shut it early because she wanted to leave at 10 when the store shut.

The member of staff knew us and was understanding about my daughter and always went out of her way to help and explained that they couldn't open any self service tills until next day and that she was really sorry because she knew that my daughter wouldn't be able to eat.

We had to wait to speak to the on duty manager and on the mean time my daughter went around and put all her items of food back and after she finished the on duty manager spoke to us and said the self service area had been shut because there had been problems with the tills all day, something we know was a lie due ro the member of staff that actually worked in that bit that I previously mentioned.

It was 3 minutes past 10 when we had finally put certain bits through a normal till and we left the store, my daughter was upset and didn't eat that night.

Well... My immediate two thoughts are:

1. How did your daughter cope before the introduction of self service machines?! Mind you, depending on the age she may be quite young and only have experience of them.

2. Yes - supermarkets SHOULD be inclusive for people with disabilities, BUT I'm skeptical whether the self service machines are related to accommodating disabilities?! I just assumed they were a cost-cutting tool which they could turn off whenever they wanted.

I can't really buy into your point of view here I just don't think that self service checkout machines have been brought in specifically for disabled people.

I put in a complaint and was told that we didn't get to the self service till according to cctv until 10-10, I replied that was incorrect and that we didn't even go near the self service because I could see from the other end of the sore that it was closed and that it was a quarter to 10 when we had approached the member of staff and this was not near the self service area.

Well, I reckon you probably DID go over there @ 10:10! You say that you saw it from a distance @ 09:45 and there was enough time between finding the staff member, waiting for the manager (who wanted to go @ 10:00) and putting a good portion of your items back.

I can see that taking 25 mins, and I can see you taking the discussion over to the self service machine to make a point!

But even so, its a bit of a moot point to argue... It doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.

I tried to say I had a copy of the receipt which showed the time as 3 minutes past 10 but customer services wouldn't budge from the answer of cctv showed 10-10. /I was advised to speak to the store manager and when I eventually got to speak to him after a few days of being told he would ring me back told me that she was banned from the store and would not speak any further about it and hung up.

Well yea, but you probably did go back after getting a few items!

EVEN SO, it is a moot point whether or not you went there. Your argument is that they closed down the self service checkout early and prevented a disabled person from checking out. It isn't about what your receipt says, or what their CCTV says. Tit for tat. They probably did get fed up and just banned you on the spur of the moment, back up and all that.

This now meant my daughter couldn't eat because of her illness it was the only shop she would get her food from, so I took the complaint to head office explained my daughter couldn't eat and they said they would get back to me,

Right, I'm all for disabled rights and everything but people don't just starve themselves to death due to an illness, and if they do (especially a mental illness) then they probably need sectioning (it is really that serious!). I also don't know what social services would do, but they would be interested if your daughter was under a certain age...

It took a week of pressing them to get the answer that nothing had changed and that the ban was upheld and they had nothing more to say. At this point my daughter hadn't eaten for 7 days and as a family we were worried.

Just "worried"?! I'm just a random internet stranger but that behaviour is actually really really concerning. You should look into something like:

https://www.ocduk.org/sectioning

(although I am in no way in a position to offer medical advice, so please bear that in mind. I post it from a humanist point of view, because that sort of behaviour is beyond "worried".

I'm sorry for the long post but it has taken us as a family a long time to be able with help from local health services to get her to shop at another store but it caused a lot of distress and still does because she wants to shop there but she can't because of a ban we have no reason why other than to think it is to do with her severe ocd which is surely discrimination due to disability.

Again, this all stemmed from a dispute about the self service machine being closed. Do you believe that they discriminated against disabled by closing it early, or refusing to re-open it? That's the bottom line really, because the ban most likely stems from making a fuss about that point.

Aside from the sectioning idea, I'd maybe suggest speaking to CAB and/or a solicitor? But then again, I'm a bit lost for words with this one...

elsien

I have a certain amount of scepticism, however:

If they want to close the self service tills early, they can do. They don't need a reason and they don't need to re-open them just because your daughter would prefer not to use other tills.
The ban is probably a culmination of incidents, with regards to food, not wanting anyone near you, suspicion of theft and trying to make them re-open the tills. Especially if you're in there every day - they are a business at the end of the day and reasonable adjustments only go so far.

What did your daughters's GP or mental health team say when you went for help with her not eating for a week? If your daughter's illness is impacting on her life to this degree, she needs more help than being able to go back shopping in Sainsbury's.

marliepanda

elsien wrote: »

I have a certain amount of scepticism, however:

If they want to close the self service tills early, they can do. They don't need a reason and they don't need to re-open them just because your daughter would prefer not to use other tills.
The ban is probably a culmination of incidents, with regards to food, not wanting anyone near you, suspicion of theft and trying to make them re-open the tills. Especially if you're in there every day - they are a business at the end of the day and reasonable adjustments only go so far.

What did your daughters's GP or mental health team say when you went for help with her not eating for a week? If your daughter's illness is impacting on her life to this degree, she needs more help than being able to go back shopping in Sainsbury's.

This. All of this.

Whilst I can appreciate that your daughter has issues, these are extreme and not something the staff of a store should be expected to accommodate on a daily (in your words) basis.

If the manager wants to go home at closing time, so be it. They are allowed to do that. Closing off superfluous areas of the store is common, especially when that store is about to close.

Disability laws are to protect people who are disabled from discrimination, and allow them to live as well as someone without the same disability and afford them the same quality of life. That does not extend to what could be described as ‘preferential’ treatment and putting others out to accommodate a want, not a ‘need’

If your daughter truly cannot eat unless it was bought at a self service checkout at Sainsbury’s then you either

A) need to get her through some CBT with some urgency.

go earlier in the day when more self service tills are likely to be open

This is absolutely NOT disability discrimination.

Hoogle

I was banned from Morissons for kicking off due to Pepsi Maxx being on the shelf where coke should be and was mis stocked. I have Aspergers (Autism) long story short I was banned by security and manager, returned to store a couple of hours later with my Support worker who explained that the reason I am there at 6am is to avoid people and it was part of my routine, explained how my Autism effects me and how I am different to Neuro Typical people etc. Since then the Manager has been really nice with me and always offers to walk with me in store.

Bottom line is explain to them and if they still refuse you entry ask them who would be interested in your complaint regarding their attitude towards disabled customers.