SMETS2 vs SMETS1 meter

System

50Twuncle wrote: »

Even if the £18 saving pa were true (although I don't see any reason as to why it should save the customer a single penny) - the actual cost to the government, and thus to us - the consumer is £374 (plus ongoing replacement battery costs) - so it would take over 20 years to recoup any initial costs - sorry not a very good deal as far as I am concerned....
And the total cost of replacing meters will be a ridiculous £1.1B
And presumably this figure can be doubled when you take into account gas meters as well
So over £2billion - to save not a single penny
How did this happen ?

You may be looking at this in the wrong way. The predicted savings are not £18 off what you pay today but £18 less than you might have to pay if smart meters had not been introduced. And it is not £18 off everybody's bill: high users will save more than the average MSEr.

We, that is consumers, pay a lot for having a number of standby power options, and we also pay solar and wind generators to 'switch off' their generation when supply exceeds demand. Smart meters with 30 minute user profiling and time of use tariffs have been shown to smooth out the peaks and troughs. The 'problem' is that we, being British, went about it in the wrong way. Germany, for example, is only offering smart meters to high electricity users and they have only just issued their first smart meter license.

Quote:

Background

The first smart meter in Germany has received a license from the Federal Office for Information Security (BSI) two years after the government decided on a large-scale roll-out, Jakob Schlandt writes in energy policy newsletter Tagesspiegel Background. The state secretary in the energy ministry (BMWi), Thomas Bareiß, said at an event held by energy company EnBW that the first device had received a license and that two more devices would follow by early 2019 at the latest. The gradual roll-out was supposed to start in 2017, initially only for large-scale consumers with a power consumption of more than 10,000 kilowatt hours (kWh) per year. However, Schlandt writes that the initial optimism about smart meters paving the way for the energy transition’s next stage of digitalisation has vanished for many observers as the licensed devices are already technologically outdated. Unquote Source: Clean Energy Wire - 11 Oct 2018

Quote:The new German policy also provides stakeholders and various manufacturers with specific and detailed standard requirements of the smart meters and communication technologies to be installed in the country. [Smart meters Germany: Eltel acquires U-SERVE].

The law was designed to open the German energy market to digitisation while ensuring a high standard regarding data protection and ICT protection.

The (new German) policy calls for the deployment of advanced meter infrastructure to begin from 2017 through to 2032 for consumers using more than 6,000 kWh annually, as well as plant operators with an installed capacity of more than 7 kW. The new policy is based on the EU legislative the Third Internal Market Package which stipulates all EU member states equip 80% of their consumers with smart meters by 2020. Unquote Source Smart Energy International

System

kev2009 wrote: »

Are sse installing SMETS2 meters? I had SMETS1 installed beginning part of the year and was told would be contacted for SMETS2 but nothing to date. Was hoping to get SMETS2 installed so could switch and be no issues

Kev

All suppliers, unless they have agreed a derogation, can no longer install SMETS1 credit meters. As far as your meters are concerned, the NAO report has the latest information:

Quote 12 The Department has not yet attempted to enrol SMETS1 meters within the DCC infrastructure. The target dates for this have been pushed back, and it is not certain that it will work as intended. The Department has always planned on enrolling SMETS1 meters to make them fully interoperable. But this is technically challenging and the solutions are still being tested or in development. The target start date for enrolment has been pushed back from November 2018 to May 2019 and there is a risk of further delay. The Department’s assumption for the purposes of cost–benefit modelling is that 2% of the first two thirds of SMETS1 meters will not be successfully enrolled but some stakeholders told us that significantly more could fail. Furthermore, the Department has not yet decided if it will attempt to enrol all makes of SMETS1 meter. Therefore, the Department should be cautious about suggesting that the successful enrolment and adoption of all SMETS1 meters is inevitable (paragraphs 1.10, 1.30 and 1.31, and 2.37 to 2.39). Unquote

PS: There are no plans to replace all the 12.5M smart meters that have already been installed. This would just be a complete waste of money and time.

ed110220

brewerdave wrote: »

As I understand it ,currently those ranges are only achieved with very conservative driving habits. Talking to someone who has a Leaf , he struggles to get more than 150 miles per charge even with moderate acceleration and dual carriageway driving during the week. He wasn't prepared to use it for a drive down to Norh Devon from South Wales recently.:(

You understand wrong. There are plenty of reviews of the Kona out, and of the related Kia Niro EV which confirm the range is realistic. Part of the issue is that the (US) EPA standard is generally agreed to much better reflect real world ranges than the NEDC standard that was used in Europe.

For example the 2013 Leaf was rated as 120 miles NEDC but only 75 miles EPA.

System

ed110220 wrote: »

You understand wrong. There are plenty of reviews of the Kona out, and of the related Kia Niro EV which confirm the range is realistic. Part of the issue is that the (US) EPA standard is generally agreed to much better reflect real world ranges than the NEDC standard that was used in Europe.

For example the 2013 Leaf was rated as 120 miles NEDC but only 75 miles EPA.

Hot off the press:

https://insideevs.com/electric-car-ev-range-test-rela-world/amp/

Anthorn

Email confirmation from EDF that they cannot "at present" (QUOTE) support my SMETS1 Elster elec and gas smart meters installed on behalf of Scottish Power which was expected. But there was encouraging news for the future:

As more smart meters will be compatible in the future, you may be able to benefit from the smart meter functions of your meter again. We will let you know if this happens.

In fact not much in the way of smart functions has been lost, practically only the ability of the supplier to read the meters and the total amount spent which is related to the tariff. My in-home display still shows the meter readings and consumption which appears to be accurate being the same as a manual read of the meter. Practically the only inconvenience is providing EDF with meter readings when they want them: Not really a biggie!

50Twuncle

Anthorn wrote: »

Email confirmation from EDF that they cannot "at present" (QUOTE) support my SMETS1 Elster elec and gas smart meters installed on behalf of Scottish Power which was expected. But there was encouraging news for the future:


In fact not much in the way of smart functions has been lost, practically only the ability of the supplier to read the meters and the total amount spent which is related to the tariff. My in-home display still shows the meter readings and consumption which appears to be accurate being the same as a manual read of the meter. Practically the only inconvenience is providing EDF with meter readings when they want them: Not really a biggie!

I thought that the reason that suppliers were trying to get smart meters fitted in every home in UK was to enable them to take readings more simply and regularly - which somewhat goes against what you are saying ?

Anthorn

50Twuncle wrote: »

I thought that the reason that suppliers were trying to get smart meters fitted in every home in UK was to enable them to take readings more simply and regularly - which somewhat goes against what you are saying ?

I think you need to clarify what it is you are (trying) to say.

The fact is that SMETS1 meters work but cease to be smart when the supplier is switched to one which cannot read that particular brand of smart meter. In my case I switched from Scottish Power which fitted Elster smart meters to EDF which can't read them "at this time".

The above is pretty much well documented anywhere and everywhere.

zeupater

Anthorn wrote: »

I think you need to clarify what it is you are (trying) to say.

The fact is that SMETS1 meters work but cease to be smart when the supplier is switched to one which cannot read that particular brand of smart meter. In my case I switched from Scottish Power which fitted Elster smart meters to EDF which can't read them "at this time".

The above is pretty much well documented anywhere and everywhere.

Hi

Yet, since the SMETS2 draft version was released six years ago there has been less concentration on sourcing compliant meters and a simple race to install whatever is readily available so as to guarantee the lucrative revenue stream that installation provides ....

Not even raising the fact that a centralised & shared communication solution was missing at an early project stage really shows how unprofessional & irresponsible the combination of government, OFGEM & the entire energy industry has been and continues to be, all at the expense of the public at large ... even the most junior of project managers would be extremely embarrassed to be associated with this debacle - it''s either the result of complete ineptitude or àn attempt to employ very clever misinformation to pull wool over the oversight of government, their agencies & the consumer in order to artificially inflate energy supply sector margins ...

If OFGEM actually had a clue as to why they exist or an inkling of what to do, they'd be fighting to ensure that the total recoverable project costs were capped to a one off & limited period increase in tariffs, for example, to limit the industry to return around 50% of their direct equipment capital investment .. say £10/household per year for five years to share their pain a little, then no more as they would be the beneficiaries of ongoing cost savings .... of course, the energy sector would be extremely vocal in opposition, but they'd definitely be a little more reticent to try the same type of margin enhancement ploy again in the future ...

HTH
Z

badmemory

And we are in the no energy company/government body could organise a booze up in a brewery zone. All totally incompetent. AND WE ARE PAYING FOR IT. Remember this as your bill keeps on going up when the cost of fuel keeps going down.