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SMETS2 vs SMETS1 meter

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  • zeupater
    zeupater Posts: 5,389 Forumite
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    edited 16 October 2018 at 8:16PM
    EachPenny wrote: »
    As per the National Grid paper, the smart chargers (alongside other smart appliances) will work out when energy is cheapest and switch on and off as necessary. Smart meters are (in the Government's view) the key to delivery of TOU tariffs, even if the current technology is too 'thick' to do the job very well:-

    Even as far back as 10 years ago I was going to meetings with Government departments and it was made clear a switch to EV's would require a TOU approach to become the norm.
    Hi

    Agreed, but the smart-chargers in question are (/will be) effectively using their own wide area network and will likely in many cases be linked to an independent domestic energy management control system which would include the ability for the EV battery to provide either V2H or V2G (or both!) variable power services as well as intelligent control of appliances to further help iron-out grid demand peaks & troughs ... in not having the ability to provide the level of smart-functionality required to manage the necessary control, the smart-meters will effectively be redundant apart from registration of energy flow and communicating this to suppliers for billing purposes ...

    The potential issue then becomes the same as any supply & demand relationship where there's little variability ... you effectively get a single(ish) rate tariff which is applicable throughout the week with the exception of a discounted rate at weekends, until the 'gap' is filled by weekly charging of higher capacity EV batteries ....

    That's what TOU metered tariffs (HHM/HHB) is designed to do - shift demand to meet generating capacity and this is what many don't realise ... the availability of cheap rate 'off peak'/'E7' electricity (along with the relative gap on TOU unit pricing) will decline as demand shifting and EVs eat into the current slack .... the big losers being those currently with overnight electric heating systems and little influence over what can replace them! ... this just leaves the 'big stick' punitive tariffs to be applied at times of maximum peak demand on dark & exceptionally cold winter days ...

    HTH
    Z
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    B)
  • I saw an article, at my local NOT garage, that described arriving home in your electric vehicle, plugging in and selling your cheap overnight charge back to the grid when demand was high and programming the EV to only charge at the lowest possible price - depending on your projected travel needs.
    I should imagine, like LPG and diesel petrol tax differentials, solar or wind subsidies once adopted any financial benefits will be erroded.

    matelodave wrote: »
    I'm guessing that the savings from LED Tvs and lightbulbs will be significantly outweighed by charging up electric vehicles.

    Can we expect the demand to start increasing again as we all transfer over to electric vehicles which will all be sitting overnight, each pulling multiple kwh out of the grid

    Just imagine the scenario at around 6pm when people get home from work - plug in the car to get it charging, indoors, kettle on for a cuppa and then the oven and cooker to get the dinner on.

    Or will we all be expected to go out and plug them in at around midnight to try and smooth the load a bit.

    .
  • 50Twuncle
    50Twuncle Posts: 10,763 Forumite
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    EneryMiser wrote: »
    I saw an article, at my local NOT garage, that described arriving home in your electric vehicle, plugging in and selling your cheap overnight charge back to the grid when demand was high and programming the EV to only charge at the lowest possible price - depending on your projected travel needs.
    I should imagine, like LPG and diesel petrol tax differentials, solar or wind subsidies once adopted any financial benefits will be erroded.


    The whole electrical supply infrastructure (national grid) will have to be upgraded - that won't be quick or cheap !
  • System
    System Posts: 178,340 Community Admin
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    50Twuncle wrote: »
    The whole electrical supply infrastructure (national grid) will have to be upgraded - that won't be quick or cheap !

    It is already happening:

    Introducing the world’s first large-scale domestic vehicle-to-grid (V2G) project.

    https://www.ovoenergy.com/electric-cars/vehicle-to-grid-charger
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  • Anthorn
    Anthorn Posts: 4,362 Forumite
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    I wonder about the availability of free public charging compared with paid charging. As I understand it free slow charging will be available in such places as supermarket car parks for the duration of a stay. But a faster charge will be available at service points for around £6.50p per 30 minutes.

    So does that mean that supermarket car parks will be always full as people get free charging? I'm already seeing in my mind's eye long queues for hours at the supermarket. I would go ROFL if it wasn't so serious. Depends how many points are available in a given area.
  • 50Twuncle
    50Twuncle Posts: 10,763 Forumite
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    Anthorn wrote: »
    I wonder about the availability of free public charging compared with paid charging. As I understand it free slow charging will be available in such places as supermarket car parks for the duration of a stay. But a faster charge will be available at service points for around £6.50p per 30 minutes.

    So does that mean that supermarket car parks will be always full as people get free charging? I'm already seeing in my mind's eye long queues for hours at the supermarket. I would go ROFL if it wasn't so serious. Depends how many points are available in a given area.


    Also long distance driving is going to be hard - can you imagine the number of charging points needed at Mway service stations - and waitiing hours for a vacant one to come up ?
  • System
    System Posts: 178,340 Community Admin
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    50Twuncle wrote: »
    Also long distance driving is going to be hard - can you imagine the number of charging points needed at Mway service stations - and waitiing hours for a vacant one to come up ?

    Not when there are EVs such as the Hyundai Kona now on the market with an EPA range of 258 miles. Most of the charging will be done at home. If my local Waitrose experience is anything to go by, chargers were free when first installed but a visit to customer services was needed to get the key. Then then moved all the chargers over to Chargemaster with a monthly fee of £7.50.

    Rapid charging is not cheap. My local garage charges a £1 connection fee and 35p per kWh. I never seen the charger in use.
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  • 50Twuncle
    50Twuncle Posts: 10,763 Forumite
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    Hengus wrote: »
    Not when there are EVs such as the Hyundai Kona now on the market with an EPA range of 258 miles. Most of the charging will be done at home. If my local Waitrose experience is anything to go by, chargers were free when first installed but a visit to customer services was needed to get the key. Then then moved all the chargers over to Chargemaster with a monthly fee of £7.50.

    Rapid charging is not cheap. My local garage charges a £1 connection fee and 35p per kWh. I never seen the charger in use.
    A similar range to ic cars now then - which DO need to refill on regular ocassions - so why would an electric car not need recharging at the same time ?
    ie During a 250/300 mile Mway journey ..
  • System
    System Posts: 178,340 Community Admin
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    50Twuncle wrote: »
    A similar range to ic cars now then - which DO need to refill on regular ocassions - so why would an electric car not need recharging at the same time ?
    ie During a 250/300 mile Mway journey ..

    Yes, you are correct they will need recharging but how often do most people drive more than 250 miles in a day? I used to commute 110 miles a day, and that was a total pain. This distance is easily done with today’s EVs at a cost of less than £3 a day. Businesses are now installing work chargers and most EV owners - that can - will have a home charger connected to an E7 tariff. I have an i3 and most of my journeys are less than 30 miles. If I want to go touring down the West Coast of Scotland, I will just hire an ICE car for a week.
    This is a system account and does not represent a real person. To contact the Forum Team email forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
  • 50Twuncle
    50Twuncle Posts: 10,763 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    Hengus wrote: »
    Yes, you are correct they will need recharging but how often do most people drive more than 250 miles in a day? I used to commute 110 miles a day, and that was a total pain. This distance is easily done with today’s EVs at a cost of less than £3 a day. Businesses are now installing work chargers and most EV owners - that can - will have a home charger connected to an E7 tariff. I have an i3 and most of my journeys are less than 30 miles. If I want to go touring down the West Coast of Scotland, I will just hire an ICE car for a week.


    I regularly drive the length of the M5 and don't believe that having an electric car will disuade the 10's thousands of drivers who are on the Mway at the same time as myself - from still doing the same - and still needing fuel/electric charges.
    What will happen in the event of an accident causing stationary traffic for hours (electric vehicles do still drain batteries when not moving (lights/aircon etc) )and what about flat batteries caused by people not recharging when they should - you can't just fill up a battery from a can..

    I see stormy waters ahead
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