Home Based Business

Ayrshire_2

Tribulation wrote: »

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I wish businessbloke all the best. My Great gran lived till she was over 100 but smoked like a chimney. If she was alive today, she could be on a forum saying that there's nothing wrong with smoking and it's not damaged her health in any way. From her point of view, if she said that, she would be 100% right, and yes she would have the right to express that as her opinion. But I would still have the right to say that while you get the odd exception to the rule, numerous people have died (or ended up seriously ill) way before their time due to to smoking.

I have no problem with thebusinessbloke expressing his opinion, however whenever I see people advertising/recommending schemes like this, I will always warn others of the potential pitfalls. A family member sells FLP, they aren't doing very well, both them and their partner have put a lot of time and effort into it, have done so for numerous years and every time I see them it's the same old story. The next 12 months they're going to give it their best (plus a load of excuses as to why they failed the previous 12 months). I know that in 12 months time I'll get the same story, YET they will be speaking about FLP in the same way thebusinessbloke is talking about NM, and if they saw this site, would wade in on the businessblokes side. I've already seen them fail in various other NM schemes, yet as usual, this time, with their latest NM company, it's the one that's going to work, and can list me 100 reasons why it's different from their previous NM experiences, all of which are complete rubbish, but they're sucked in by the hype.

I also have seen that whatever family event they go to, where ever in the country it might be, wedding, birthday party, whatever, rather than enjoying themselves, they spend a majority of their time saying how great FLP is, how they have a product that they can let xyz have at "the family rate" and it's very sad to watch.

I totally agree.... and sounds like they are not in the right business. Don't get me wrong i agree 100% that NM isn't the golden ticket to happiness but i'm sure for the right people, with the right company and right support can and will be succesful in that business. Many people have made money at it and not just those that 'got in at the start'.

Where i don't agree is the blanket attitude that it's all a scam, people out to rip off the weak blah blah..... everyday working life can look like that and i'm sure plenty of people get exploited in their 'jobs' just that same.... doesn't stop the rest of us having jobs though !!

I wish people every success in whichever roads they choose to travel.

Ayrshire_2

Tim_L wrote: »

Franchises can be good and they can be bad. As a rule though they are run as proper businesses, i.e. someone invests cash in a business and makes it work. There is no recruitment of franchisees, they essentially rent a brand from which they can make money over and above the cost of the rent. It's possible to create a business plan a bank will take seriously for a franchise, where it would be very difficult indeed for an MLM membership.

Funny i've see a well known coffee shop 'recruiting' not so long ago... although they have now stopped doing the franchise thing (so i'm told). I know of someone who took a franchise with them and is now nearing the end of the agreement.... meaning they have spent 5 years building someone else's brand and will have potential nothing to show at the end of it. And to be honest they've hardly made a bean (pun intended!) whilst the place got established. They couldn't even decide what to pay staff as it was dictated to them!!.

Obviously thats only one example and i'm sure, just like NM, there are plenty of decent opportunities out there. But like any business people HAVE to do their research and go into it with eyes wide open.

To be honest the business plan bit doesn't wash with me because every business should have a business plan... whether you need to secure funding from a bank or not. The fact is NM is 'cheap' to get into so there isn't the need to secure funding, or at least not on the same scale as other ventures.

Tim_L wrote: »

No-one is disputing this. The point is that this is completely incidental to the network, which exists to make money in its own right. MLMs start out by telling a big lie, which is that network marketing is an efficient means of getting products out there. It's not. These products are mostly tat, and they are overpriced because multiple layers take a slice without adding value. Yes, you can potentially make money selling anything if you have a gift for selling, but by the same token you'd probably make more in conventional sales.

In your opinion they are tat... so why do people buy it?....and i assume they must buy again or very quickly companies would go bust. Is it themost efficient ... i don't know but some companies have been using NM for decades, especially in the states..... it can't all be a scam. Or i should say... in my opinion it can't be.

Tim_L wrote: »

This is another thing MLM advocates and Ponzi scamsters push hard: conventional businesses use pyramid structures. They don't. They are organised hierarchically, but minimise the layers deliberately because they are expensive overhead. Very few organisations use multiple layers of selling: typically businesses might sell direct via salespeople, have some sort of catalogue channel, and maybe sell via distribution agents (like a wholesaler selling to a shop). Any sales channel must minimise overhead and justify itself not by adding further layers, which is what MLM *ACTIVELY SEEKS TO DO*, but by maximising margin.

I can only look at my employers and it isn't quite as clear cut as you make it. We have 'sales people' as it were but then they have managers. The managers do little or no selling 'having climbed the ladder' yet they do make bonuses on the success of their teams. So not a million miles different to NM. There are then the directors above them who, on the company doing well get a nice healthy bonus.... so again they gain from the hard work of the sales guys/gals at the front line. The directors in my case are also the shareholders, no pension co's involved ... so they get a super cut for that also. So it's the further up the ladder the better the rewards it would seem..... for doing less and less sales.......hhmmm.

It doesn't make it wrong.......but it doesn't mean it's totally perfect against NM... at least not in my eyes.

Tim_L wrote: »

In fact for most companies, shareholders get the benefits, which is reasonable as they have put up the money in the first place. Most of these are pension or investment schemes in any case.

Not really since many will have had nothing to do with starting the business..... many are gambling on future success long after the founders have parted.

Tim_L wrote: »

As an employee you do get certain protections, which MLM members don't have. Ultimately it's a choice: do you work for someone, or do you attempt to work for yourself. MLM just combines the worst parts of both, they are relentlessly sold to the vulnerable, and it's a pretty shabby industry overall.

In the industry i'm in i don't see much in the way of employee protection... if you ain't hitting targets... you're out of there.... thanks.. goodbye. I don't think that's unique either..... i hear my folks talking about when they were young if you got a job in xyz it was a job for life.... could you honestly say that exists today?


You are 100% right though.... ultimately it's everyones choice.... work for someone, work for themselves, work for nothing. Sadly I think there are nasty people in all walks of life ... not just the MLM industry.

Tim_L

You're missing the point Ayrshire. Real businesses (the kind that can actually raise money from investors based on a business plan) work ruthlessly to eradicate overhead. MLM seeks to introduce it, and in fact tries to recruit levels of overhead endlessly.

The hierarchy in a genuine business performs different functions at each level. Each has to justify it's existence, ultimately to the shareholders via the annual accounts and balance sheet. No sensible business employs multiple layers of salespeople often covering the same patch and randomly selected. It's mad.

As far as recruitment goes, what I meant was that franchisees don't recruit downlines as a rule. It's not unreasonable for a brand owner to recruit franchisees.

NikkiP_2

Take a look at Findel on the Stock Market. Are you seriously saying that they are not a proper 'real' business. It has a management structure and is responsible to its shareholders. Oh and it happens to do a large proportion of it's sales ( of real products) through a network of distributors.

eco123

Answer 1 & 2 would suggest to me you know very little about network marketing but maybe i'm wrong.

You are indeed wrong to put it bluntly.

It's a good thing we're all different i guess.

Yes indeed, I would hate for us all to be brainwashed & have our grey matter mulched into a pre-programmed boring sales aid.

I am very happily self employed & love my life (which I control 100%) as opposed to being controlled by an MLM organisation.

Ayrshire_2

Tim_L wrote: »

You're missing the point Ayrshire. Real businesses (the kind that can actually raise money from investors based on a business plan) work ruthlessly to eradicate overhead. MLM seeks to introduce it, and in fact tries to recruit levels of overhead endlessly.

The hierarchy in a genuine business performs different functions at each level. Each has to justify it's existence, ultimately to the shareholders via the annual accounts and balance sheet. No sensible business employs multiple layers of salespeople often covering the same patch and randomly selected. It's mad.

As far as recruitment goes, what I meant was that franchisees don't recruit downlines as a rule. It's not unreasonable for a brand owner to recruit franchisees.

I'm not missing the point, i know only too well that traditional business looks to minimise overheads (without limiting or damaging the business) and totally agree with it.

But MLM doesn't look to add extra layers of overhead. Company A uses NM to shift it's products, it therefore strips the whole sales 'overhead' from their P&L in terms of staffing costs so on and so forth. It then sells direct to the network and pays a fixed % as commission ... how the % is spread amongst the distributors & downline may fluctuate dependant on what the structure of their schem is but the Company will only pay X in every £1 of sales.


In truth it's not a bad model for the company as they don't have the fixed overhead of sales staff. They sell product Z for £X's and pay £y's in commission. The price doesn't change regardless of how far down the pyramid it's sold.

Obviously i'm can only base my response on my limited knowledge of the industry and fully accept that there will be organisations/NM people out there who do bully people into it, pray on the vulnerable etc etc. But that doesn't make it a shaddy/dodgy industry.

I'll bet businessbloke's delighted i dropped past :rotfl:

Ayrshire_2

eco123 wrote: »

You are indeed wrong to put it bluntly.

Well fair enough but from my knowledge of the industry it's not only those that 'got in first' that make serious money (i say that on the basis that everyone's value of serious money is different) from the NM model.

eco123 wrote: »

Yes indeed, I would hate for us all to be brainwashed & have our grey matter mulched into a pre-programmed boring sales aid.

I am very happily self employed & love my life (which I control 100%) as opposed to being controlled by an MLM organisation.

I wholeheartedly agree ...... but whilst many are 'brainwashed' into a pre-programmed boring sales aid as you put it .....many more are brainwashed into thinking we must all go to school, study hard, get a job, punch the clock every working day, retire someday then eventually shuffle off to the unknown.

The fact that you have followed neither path (or at least no longer following) makes it more of a surprise that you suggested the alternative was to get a job.

However i say well done to you for following your dream and enjoying the life you have. I wish more people had the courage that you've found to allow them the control/lifestyle you enjoy today. Sadly i see trains full of people dragging themselves to work everyday and they look nothing like very happy or loving their life.

I wish you every success in your venture.

AWinner

Well this has become a very convoluted thread, many twists and turns!

As one who has spent many years in MLM, I've experienced the good and bad and the in-between. Having said that I also lost a business, family house and reputation in 1992 due to Government and Banks allowing interest rates to climb to 15% and have been made redundant 3 times since. So traditional employment does not have all the answers either.

My advice to any one looking at Direct Sales (Party Plan or MLM) as an income generator would be to study the company and their products to see if there would be a genuine possiblity of making repeat sales to a wide audience. Check if the products are "reasonably" priced for your target market and make sure that you can devote sufficient time and effort into the bsuiness.

I think that ideally you should be looking at making your own sales before any ideas of recruiting others. Do not be suckered into buying anything more than demonstration stock, keeping within your own budget. Also keep away from companies who rely on "distributors" own personal product purchases to make up the numbers required for bonuses.

I hope that this will help any potential MLMers

thebusinessbloke

AWinner wrote: »

Well this has become a very convoluted thread, many twists and turns!

As one who has spent many years in MLM, I've experienced the good and bad and the in-between. Having said that I also lost a business, family house and reputation in 1992 due to Government and Banks allowing interest rates to climb to 15% and have been made redundant 3 times since. So traditional employment does not have all the answers either.

My advice to any one looking at Direct Sales (Party Plan or MLM) as an income generator would be to study the company and their products to see if there would be a genuine possiblity of making repeat sales to a wide audience. Check if the products are "reasonably" priced for your target market and make sure that you can devote sufficient time and effort into the bsuiness.

I think that ideally you should be looking at making your own sales before any ideas of recruiting others. Do not be suckered into buying anything more than demonstration stock, keeping within your own budget. Also keep away from companies who rely on "distributors" own personal product purchases to make up the numbers required for bonuses.

I hope that this will help any potential MLMers

There is a considerable amount of intelligent arguement and misinformation going on at the same time; naturally once a person has totally convinced themselves that network marketing is a pyramid, it is a complete waste of time talking with them about beginning any form of home based business.

Now that's quite a 'ruthless' statement, but an accurate one. I tend to simply point such people at official webs, such as DSA or OFT, to learn - if they chose to - and leave the door open for them to come back to me.

I think that is a core discussion point here, of the legitimacy of this industry, associated with the experiences, whether first or second hand, of poepl who have tried and stopped.

Whether you believe in this business or not, the simple statistics associated with it are compelling:

• Network Marketing is growing at a rate of 67% against 7% for retailing (according to Mintel Market Research)
• Many Network Marketing companies are Fortune 500 companies, consistently appearing on those business league tables alongside some heavy hitters in business.
• Globally it is worth in excess of £100 Billion.

The original message of this post, before we were tangled up in the big discussion, was informative on a viable and successful option for someone who wishes to supplement their income or quit their existing job and do their own thing.

I maintain that this is still the case; there is nothing to compare with doing this business well, it will create a very healthy income for anyone who starts a business and works hard for it.

You can behave like the majority of people in this business and bombard everyone with your opportunity, hey there are plenty of examples of that over in the 'Party Plan' post on this site.

I think that persuing this as a 'business' and having an ethical, motivated and interested attitude will reap big rewards. I always talk to people using a style adopted from a bloke called Michael Oliver; his Natural Selling principle based communication framework treats the other person with respect while achieving your objective of uncovering whether they are suited to this business.

I treat my business as a business; interestingly many of the most successful people in this business have done so too. Party Plan = Hobby Income: you may find that controversial...c'est la vie. I have modelled the skills of the people who are earning 7 digit incomes from this business...oddly enough they are people who have created large, ethusiastic teams of people who know what they have gotten into, know that it is a difficult journey but one with significant reward.

Anyone in network marketing can achieve an amazing lifestyle; if they have the appropriate support. By amazing lifestyle I'm not talking about yachts, big homes and flash cars; many people I know have surpassed their 'job' income and were delighted when they quit their daytime job. It enabled them to have a 'lifestyle'.

Whether you work for someone or for yourself...'you' know whether it is a fit for you and one must simply be honest to yourself. If you are happy with your job then fantastic...because I am very happy with my business.

eco123

thebusinessbloke

I won't quote you on all the previous post it's too long & boring & we've heard it a million times before...$100 billion, have a Porsche.. Etc. Etc. YAWN!!

Throwing percentages at people who are less well educated will undoubtedly impress them & I know this is the target audience for MLM'ers.

once a person has totally convinced themselves that network marketing is a pyramid, it is a complete waste of time talking with them about beginning any form of home based business.

Yes & no...

Yes they have chosen to kick the MLM route into touch & rightly so, but this is not to say they couldn't run a home business succesfully. I think your perception of people is not good if you just place them into the category of 'useless, ...unless they do what you want' section of life.

Every MLM'er seems happy to quote the figures for growth, but I bet if you saw the figures for failure you would be HORRIFIED !

Great debate by the way