Home Based Business

Tim_L

In most if not all MLM the actual product is the network, and the customers are the members of the network. That is where the value comes from - the products are incidental. It may be possible to scrape a modest amount of cash from selling the cheap tat to indulgent friends and neighbours, but the real cash goes up the pyramid (er, sorry, hierarchy) to the organisers in the form of obligatory stock purchases, catalogue fees, and seminar payments.

Actually it's about the most inefficient sales model imaginable. Multiple layers, each taking a commission from their downline without any of them adding value. Proper sales organisations either remove salespeople and sell direct, or ensure their salespeople add some value to the sale from which margin can be extracted. Otherwise it's just adding overhead.

Generally MLM schemes are sold hard to people who are trying to achieve a dream of working for themselves. Often tags like "not everyone is clever enough to spot the opportunity", are used or "you get out of life what you put into it" are used to make these people feel good about themselves and explain why it is not everyone succeeds. But fundamentally people doing this get the worst of all worlds. They are essentially employed as sales people without any opportunity to influence the kinds of products they are asked to sell, and they have no employment or income protection.

I think when you examine these schemes you have to ask yourself why it is that recruitment plays such a big part. Then go onto Ebay and see what you can buy the same products for online, and ask yourself why so many people are offloading the stuff. And search for debunking information online, there is plenty of it (incidentally almost all MLM advocates start by explaining that there is a lot of negativity about it, which is a nice preemptive move).

If you want to make proper money from MLM then it's pretty easy. Form a network of your own.

Tim_L

thebusinessbloke wrote: »

Finally...network marketing has never let anyone down, people are often the causal problem whether overzealous, manipulative or unscrupulous...every industry has their problems and this is just the same.

This is a classic MLM sound bite. Sounds great, means absolutely nothing.

Lots of people engaged in MLMs make nothing at all. Very large numbers lose money (and are encouraged to go to paid seminars where they can learn why they have failed and see how others have succeeded). So Network marketing has let huge numbers of people down.

People are the causal problem? Meaning what exactly? The fact of the matter is that there is far less manipulation and demagoguery employed in motivating a normal sales force than is used by MLM advocates to hook in downline suckers and keep them onboard.

MLM is NOT a normal industry. It's a money making scheme. It has an incidental product line, but in all other senses it looks and smells like a pyramid scheme. And there is a very good, triangular shaped, reason for that.

Tribulation

thebusinessbloke wrote: »

Tribulation really has got a bee in his bonnet about network marketing, but I do begin to take offense when I am misquoted or a spin is placed on what I say. Here's the thing then: in my original post I told you what we do, if you want to call that a pyramid scheme then off you go and have a wonderful time believing that.

If I misquoted you then I'm sorry.

I do have a big bee in my bonnet about schemes like this because I've met too many victims.

As Tim_L says, very large numbers loose money.

It's very hard when I'm looking at both family members and close friends who are completely blinded by all the hype. If I tell them the truth they get upset saying I have no faith in them etc, and think I'm being a disloyal friend, if I bite my tongue, I know what the end result will be and regrettably so far I've been right.

Trying to help people in debt and hearing them all excited because they've joined up to a networking marketing scheme is mind numbing. They get cross if I warn them because they believe their doing something positive. I know what the end result will be a few months/years down the line and sadly I haven't been wrong yet (I really really wish I had been)

Something else that I've also noticed is that if I look around the bookshelves of friends I've known that are into network marketing, they all seem to have the same type of books. Self confidence building, self help books, books that tell them to believe in themselves etc. Nothing against these sort of books or for people wanting to read them, but again, it looks to me like false hope given when people are at their most vulnerable.

thebusinessbloke

Wow there's some serious downers going on here about this business; so as I mentioned before I'm not going to try to convince anyone - I haven't the time.

If network marketers are approaching people who are vulnerable, in debt and needing something and offering them false hope; then their ethics in the first place are in the wrong place. We should be offering people this opportunity from a position of 'knowing' that it can help people achieve financial independence and inform them of the hard work ahead.

I have no knowledge of how other companies operate, because I joined Forever and stayed there, because I saw what it had was above and beyond what others offered. I know that amateur networkers cause many of the problems we see in posts above; they have created these resentments by telling people to fill their garages with products they 'need' and buy shelves of books they may never get around to reading. Yes, I agree that this is bad practise - unfortunately it happens.

Is the pursuit of money greed? No, greed = greed. I have seen the potential in this business and I know that I'm persuing it in a sensible and timely manner; I only wish to work with people who are serious and I qualify them several times over to make sure they know that is ahead. If they aren't ready to start their own business, then that's okay.

Hey fellas, quit beating me up because I'm an advocate of an industry you so vehemently dislike; I agree with many of your concerns, which have been caused by people not knowing what they are doing (or maybe they do know what they are doing and don't care!) I'm following my own path and leading my people in my way so they'll be successful. This business is simply a vehicle to get them what they want, if you build it correctly and find the right company/sponsor then you are in a good position.

eco123

.. and all the things ppl say about network marketing is because they do not know how the system works

Please don't assume that I am not knowledgable about NM/MLM.

The reverse is true in fact. I did spend a lot of time with people who had been sucked into the ridiculous hype & subsequently lost everything, it's not a pretty sight believe me. I hate the way people who do this sort of thing totally miss the fact that they will never make much money, & will in fact spend what they do make on cr*p promotional materials & meetings where they all pretend they are "billy-big-timers".

I can safely say I have only met 2 people who have made substantial sums of money from this line of work & they "PETTED" everyone around them at a meeting... & it's no wonder when you see what these 2 guys are raking in each week...& laughing at you lot (the distributors) wandering the streets in all weathers peddling your wares for minimal return. Call me a dream stealer (thats what you are "programmed" to do I believe) but the facts are clear, you will not be rich anytime soon.

MLM is NOT a normal industry. It's a money making scheme. It has an incidental product line, but in all other senses it looks and smells like a pyramid scheme. And there is a very good, triangular shaped, reason for that.

Very well put, I 100% agree with that comment.

& have you noticed the disclaimer on these DSA schemes...you know, the one that states your earnings are not guaranteed Etc. There is a very good reason for this, their ar*e is covered!

First of all people mistake MLM with direct sales - totally different thing

Then why the heck are they all members of the DSA ??????? ridiculous comment if you ask me.

Peter_Pan

After 5 years of being caught up in the hype I honestly think its the Companies here that benefit, they have a network of people working very hard shifting their products, buying their sales aids (and making money from the distributors on these), advertising their opportunity all at the expense of the distributors.
It gives you hope and keeps you so busy that you feel you MUST be achieving something, i have known distributors lose family and friends trying to get them to buy the products or join the Opportunity, and at the end of the day its a house of cards, all it takes is the Company to pull the network , to get itself into financial difficulties and it falls, your only asset really is your team you have built and then you have to ask yourself would they follow you to another opportunity?

I cringe when i think we were caught up in this for 5 years, we used to put catalogues out in an area where there was already at least 5 other agents for the same company and were trained to step over other brochures and still put yours through. We did gain from the personal development reading we were advised to do but what a cost, i'm now having to watch my OH go bancrupt (admittedly not totally due to NM but it has definately paid its part) and i'm embarassed to admit that NM had us within its grasp good and proper for 5 years.

Tim_L

thebusinessbloke wrote: »

Is the pursuit of money greed? No, greed = greed. I have seen the potential in this business and I know that I'm persuing it in a sensible and timely manner; I only wish to work with people who are serious and I qualify them several times over to make sure they know that is ahead. If they aren't ready to start their own business, then that's okay.

Another lovely quote, the classic "many are called, but few are chosen". In other words the message is that if you miss the boat here it's because you're not good or quick enough, which is a classic psychological trick used to create a sense of urgency and competition. It creates a sort of herd mentality, wherein getting into the group becomes the prime focus, and normal critical thinking is turned off.

Any organisation in which downline recruitment forms a major part of activities is deeply suspect. Like I said, it may be possible to make a small amount of money selling this sort of tat to friends and family who want to support you, but that is not the point of the activity.

In many ways this is similar to the way lottery pyramids work: if someone wins a jackpot it's great, it costs the scheme organisers nothing and provides good publicity. Similarly, if someone makes money from the actual selling of MLM products it costs nothing to the organisers and provides a strong and useful aspirational recruitment message. But the real money comes from members of the network, the downline, and flows upwards. As I think the OP has noted at one point in this thread.

All of this is pretty well known. There are plenty of people debunking these schemes everywhere. And yet for some unexplained reason people are still drawn in, not least by the plausible wasps buzzing around the honeypot of boards like this, where normal people with marginal finances are looking for a way to realise their dreams.

Arwen

Tim_L wrote: »

This is a classic MLM sound bite. Sounds great, means absolutely nothing.

Lots of people engaged in MLMs make nothing at all. Very large numbers lose money (and are encouraged to go to paid seminars where they can learn why they have failed and see how others have succeeded). So Network marketing has let huge numbers of people down.

People are the causal problem? Meaning what exactly? The fact of the matter is that there is far less manipulation and demagoguery employed in motivating a normal sales force than is used by MLM advocates to hook in downline suckers and keep them onboard.

MLM is NOT a normal industry. It's a money making scheme. It has an incidental product line, but in all other senses it looks and smells like a pyramid scheme. And there is a very good, triangular shaped, reason for that.

Agree with above and many other similar sounding posts.I naively got into Network Marketing 11 years ago, bought the books , went to all those paid seminars miles away and struggled for the petrol money. I was a single parent and gave it my all cos I had no choice. I dragged my kids around in pushchairs in all weathers, delivering and collecting catalogues, and had to pay a fortune for just about everything.Starter kits, catalgues,bags, cards etc and then to build up the other side of my business, put adverts in papers, you name it. It was sold to me as simple, but the money wasnt to be made in catalogues,it was employing other fools. I lasted a year, when I found out it was costing me a fortune and I was getting little return.

I have also watched family and friends get into NM with various companies and it all went the same way eventually. The ones that got in at the beginning were the ones that got the big bucks, the market is saturated now with NM people, everytime I go to a car park, I get a flyer from some poor sod trying to get people, or people with stickers on cars. I don't see anyone driving brand new Beamers or Mercs (even the ones that has "supposedly" made a killing).

To those of you starting out, then fine if its your bag, but don't expect to get rich.LOts of poor souls have trod the path before you and made their killing and got out.The rest of you are straggling for a few crumbs

Ayrshire_2

I'm reading plenty of people knocking MLM on this thread, some say it's from experience, some from the 'eye witness' mindset.

Couple of questions spring to mind.

Why do some people make money from MLM?

Are people saying only those that 'got in at the start' make money?

What's the alternative?


I appreciate everyone is entitled to their opinion but some of the replies suggest businessbloke is exempt from this rule. For what it's worth businessbloke i wish you the best in your chosen field, you've decided to aim for something and are at least making an attempt to achieve it. Far better to try and fail than to never have tried !!


Regards,

Craig

Peter_Pan

thebusinessbloke wrote: »

Is the pursuit of money greed? No, greed = greed. I have seen the potential in this business and I know that I'm persuing it in a sensible and timely manner; I only wish to work with people who are serious and I qualify them several times over to make sure they know that is ahead. If they aren't ready to start their own business, then that's okay.

I agree that this is how it should work - qualify people several times over BUT in practice it doesn't happen because how can you tell from talking to someone if they are going to succeed, you can't, action speaks louder than word and many can talk the talk but don't do anything. Thats why sponsors get desperate and we were told get everyone in and out of those you may find one that will do the Business so all the others have paid their subscriptions etc, get the hope that they will succeed.
I know from our own advertising that we had to spend a lot of money and/or time just to get a steady stream of leads in and the huge % are going to say No anyway so you won't qualify the others, you just want them joined and see what happens (hopefully they will work the Biz and shift some product and then you can introduce the bigger picture to them and hook them in by increasing their retail and use that extra cash to pay for some fliers, advertising etc)