Home Based Business

grey_lady

Actually the OP did mention the name of the company directly
the bit about googling for a 20 minute video on 'Brilliant Comprehension'
clever huh...

Tribulation

Personally I think this sort of thing is a big con,

I recently (to humour them) let a family member do a presentation on behalf of "Forever living products". When they started to explain how the team recruitment worked and how the funds are shared out, I was presented with a picture of what was basically a pyramid on it's side. I had to bite my tongue pretty hard when they said "as you can see it's nothing like a pyramid scheme". I was told how their products can only be sold exclusively through agents and couldn't simply be purchased through the net, and they nearly had a fit when in 5 seconds I brought up a page of forever products for sale on ebay. They were so taken in by all the hype they've received from forever living that they honestly thought that by taking notes of the sellers and telling their team leader, things would get done and such products would no longer be on the likes of ebay.

They showed me how much money certain members of forever living have made and they were literally glowing at the thought of earning a similar amount, having a huge team and getting loads of rewards/prizes for reaching various targets.

Some of you reading this might be angered at me calling this type of selling a con, and you might have made a very successful living out of such schemes, but just because you've made good money out of it, doesn't mean it's right.

I have 2 big problems with the way such things work.

1) The team building side of things. It is a pyramid, no matter whether the cutoff is. A new networking scheme comes to a neighbourhood, the people at the top make the money. It's always been this way and it always will. Common sense tells you that if there's say 5 big housing estates near you and the person doing the presentation already has say 10 members in their team, the markets going to be saturated (no different from the chainmail letters people used to send) and all you'll be left with is pestering your friends and families for sales (each of which helps line the pockets of the person recruiting you).

2) And I believe this is the biggest problem, these companies give people false hope.

One of my friends is an excellent salesman. We all say he could sell sand to the Arabs. He now owns a very successful business of his own, but in the past, doesn't matter whether he's worked in an electrical store selling TV's or gone out in a van selling pies to pubs, his sales were always through the roof, quadrupling the turnover of shops he was placed in etc. Now I can assure you, it wouldn't matter where down the line he was hired by a networking company, he has both the knack of selling and the knack of finding the right market to be successful. He would be one of the people with his name and picture on the presentation documents.

BUT he's the exception to the rule.

How many of you have watched the X-factor when someone (and often their family as well) are convinced they can sing, yet it's obvious to every other person watching them that they've no chance?

I've seen person after person in networking sales who are convinced they have what it takes, are led by their team leaders to believe they have what it takes, are taken to presentation after presentation and told they have the potential to earn xyz, when in reality, it's obvious to anyone that's heard them try to sell, that they will never make a salesperson. I've witnessed family and friends in various schemes, lay out a lot of money for products which they struggle to sell (and usually only manage to because their family and other friends feel sorry for them), I've witnessed them take it very seriously, doing things like getting in an extra phoneline for their business, getting business cards printed etc, all which has to be paid for when it should be pretty obvious to the person that recruited them that both a) they will NEVER do well because they're not cut out for the job and b) the markets flooded (hence difficulty either selling products or recruiting a team). I call this praying on the weak.

thebusinessbloke

grey_lady wrote: »

Actually the OP did mention the name of the company directly
the bit about googling for a 20 minute video on 'Brilliant Comprehension'
clever huh...

Grey Lady...I sent you searching for brilliant compensation simply to educate; I'm not involved in any of the companies you may have found that subscribe to that video as an educational tool.

I don't know if you were inferring that I have placed a cleverly crafted strategy to market my business...if you are so inferring then I must be a genius to know whether my business would appear on that google page and that you would select the correct link.

My message was 'pitch' free and I maintain the neutrality of what I posted; you can see above a couple of people pointed out I had a link to my web on my signature...I removed it at their request.

As for Tribulation's post I am lost for words, but I do wish to answer a couple of his points:

• Ebay - yes you can obtain FLP products on ebay, but I am also aware that the company will terminate the distributorship of anyone selling products there. There are plenty of e-commerce sites you can get products from.
• Pyramids - no one should be afraid of this word; in architecture it is the strongest structure known and EVERY effective hierarchial organisation is the shape of a pyramid. I suggest you pop over to the Office of Fair Trading's website (www.oft.gov.uk) or the Direct Selling Association (www.dsa.org.uk) and learn the significant differences between illegal pyramid schemes and network marketing.
• Giving false hope - too many people are stuck in their world of negativity, pessimism and cynicism to open their eyes long enough to release that their employer doesn't care about them. Network Marketing offers anyone the ability, via hard work, to create a successful business. Naturally Darwinian rules apply here: not everyone will survive.

I appreciate that many of you are completely closed to the idea of the business, because you believe that it is something that it is not. This business is not for everyone and if it isn't then that is okay, please do what you do and enjoy doing so.

My question to you is "What if you are totally wrong? What if this business is not what you think it is?"

For some people who are open to it, they discover a business model that is being successful used by some very big names in industry. In Japan, Toyota cars are moved via this business; in the US Microsoft distribute their software this way and in the UK some well known business people have adopted it: Sir Richard Branson, Sir Alan Sugar, Dame Anita Roddick.

Does anyone really think that the Office of Fair Trading would approve of network marketing company's activities if they were illegal?

Peter_Pan

I have come out of NM after 5 years for various reasons, I have to agree that to a certain extent it does give people false hope but also have to argue that sometimes false hope is better than no hope.
We worked very very hard, went to every meeting and follwed everything our sponsors told us and got ourselves into debt thinking just another push and it'll start turning around, some companies are good in that you can earn an extra income from putting out brochures and delivering product and although its hard work and your home looks like a warehouse and it is time consuming that extra income helps, its when you get caught up in the other side and we found that we had to keep upping the retail side to reinvest back in to build it and travel miles to meetings, admittedly it did build slowly but each end of tax year when we analysised it we hadn't really made a profit at all but we thought another push and so on until i realised at the end of the day we were still reliant on a company that could get into difficulties or worse close and then where are we, and even if in say another 1 yr or 10 yrs we were making a good income the whole idea we were doing it was to be able do more for the kids and we had just spent 5 yrs of our childrens lives dragging them about, leaving them at weekends and evenings with childminders and being grumpy with them cos they needed feeding and getting to bed when it was prime time to make those phone calls and get people to join.
Looking back it was the HOPE that kept us going and as much as i sometimes wish we had never got involved we have grown as people and have definately learnt a lot about ourselves and made some lasting friendships (most i have to say are also no longer in NM).

thebusinessbloke

A large number of people do find the personal development side of network marketing a breath of fresh air; rather than focusing on keeping their minds contained in a box, they are encouraged to expand them and consider the possibilities.

All of those people who now 'retire' and live on beaches, holiday 5 times a year and are 'loaded' began at the same place as everyone else; I think it is that level playing field I enjoy in this business. The only hinderances are those inbetween our ears.

Tribulation

thebusinessbloke wrote: »

As for Tribulation's post I am lost for words, but I do wish to answer a couple of his points:

• Pyramids - no one should be afraid of this word; in architecture it is the strongest structure known and EVERY effective hierarchial organisation is the shape of a pyramid. I suggest you pop over to the Office of Fair Trading's website (www.oft.gov.uk) or the Direct Selling Association (www.dsa.org.uk) and learn the significant differences between illegal pyramid schemes and network marketing.

In your OP you say

These fees cut off 3 layers deep, so it is fair. The opposite is where there is no cut off, and the fat cats at the top are getting loads of money and people below are just investing money – that’s called a Pyramid.

That implies that your Home Networking companies way of doing things is not a pyramid (it is a pyramid) and that you should be wary of other schemes that are. Now your saying pyramids are ok?

You also say

Team Building – within your business you are given an opportunity to duplicate yourself in business; to recruit others into your organisation as independent distributors and they can do the same to. It’s akin to having a franchise, only this one is a free one. You identify interested people, recruit them and then train, coach and mentor them to be successful. For helping them the company pays you a fee for each person, thus the more people you recruit the more money the company pays you. This activity is where people generate substantial incomes.

The wording of that implies that the best way of making money is by the team building side of things rather than the selling side of things.

Going to the www.oft.gov.uk site you mentioned and searching for pyramid brings up THIS page. Note the bit under trading schemes that says

In some schemes, participants may earn additional commission by recruiting others to the scheme and from sales by their recruits. Trading schemes become illegitimate and illegal when their real purpose is to generate money just by recruiting new participants.

Without exception, every single person I've witnessed working for any network marketing company, their main goal is to do just this, generate money by recruiting, with the aim to have enough recruits to make money without having to sell any more. This to me falls into the "illegitimate" side of things. It's one thing to be paid a bit of commission if you pass on a name of someone who asks you how the company works and shows an interest in joining, but it's another thing altogether when you've given the type of presentation I've witnessed from various companies, where the main goal is to make me think that all I have to do is join, recruit x number of people, then sit back and watch the cash role in.

I like the bit at the bottom of that oft pyramid page where it says;

• avoid plans that offer commissions based solely on recruiting new members
• be cautious of claims that you'll make money through continued growth or commissions on sales by your recruited distributors, instead of sales you make yourself
• be wary of fake testimonials. Some promoters pay people to describe fictional success in earning money through the scheme. Ask for solid evidence rather than a glowing testimonial

Remember, don't fall for claims such as:
'Your recruits do all the work for you, you just sit back and bank the money.'
'All you need for future wealth is your £XX starter kit.'
'Become part of the world's fastest growing industry.'

'You and your friends can enjoy wealth together.'
'I was unemployed and in debt before I discovered this opportunity.'
'I made £XXXX in XX days. I guarantee you will do the same.'

thebusinessbloke wrote: »

Giving false hope - too many people are stuck in their world of negativity, pessimism and cynicism to open their eyes long enough to release that their employer doesn't care about them. Network Marketing offers anyone the ability, via hard work, to create a successful business. Naturally Darwinian rules apply here: not everyone will survive.

I agree that if your capable your better off working for yourself and yes it's true that very few employers do care about you, but there are the odd good ones out there. You could say the same thing about network marketing. Most team leaders dont really care about the people further down the pyramid, they just want to make money out of them.

It's true there's a lot of cynicism and negativity around, but often there's very good reasons for such views. Such as being led to believe your make thousands out of home networking, only to find 2 years later you've worked your socks off and have made next to nothing. Some people I know that have gone into home networking do so because they are short of cash and do this on top of their normal jobs being led to believe that their problems would be solved. It SHOULD be obvious to any of their team leaders that they aren't cut out to be sales people. Yes they might sell the odd product here or there but they simply haven't got the charm/sales patter to ever be successful at this type of work (not writing such people off, just saying that they need to look for a different line of work). I've witnessed such people 2 or 3 years later, very cynical about life, having worked their socks off after being given false hope, only to find themselves further in debt and regretting ever starting.


In the DSA Consumer code (available at the other link you posted), section 3 states

Members shall satisfy the Association by production of written guidance that they have taken all reasonable steps to see that direct sellers act with integrity; and in particular:
(a) do not use misleading, deceptive or unfair sales practices;
(g) refrain from in any way exploiting the customer, especially anyone who is particularly vulnerable;

I would say that the way these home networking products have been sold to people I know, the people have been mislead in to believing they're virtually guaranteed to make a lot of money, the main emphasis being on team building rather than direct sales, and as said earlier, it's pretty obvious to anyone that most of these people are not suitable, they are vulnerable (as they're short of money and are led to believe this is a quick way out) and for the same reason, are being exploited.

If home networking companies were more choosy on who they signed up, not giving out false hope, then I wouldn't have a problem.

alirob12

sorry for my signature- but i have had it like that for like 3 months and noone said anything so thought it was ok... and there was no link in it... hmm very confused...
In regards to network marketing - I have actuall friends - who achieved more than most people within a 2-3 yrs and I am very determined to do the same - and that is the only what to achieve it - which other business allows you to achieve financial freedome within 3 yrs?? I hav a gd full time job- but even though there is a possiblity to progress - it is very unlikely - as there is many people for higher positions... so... network marketing - the way forward - at least for me...

Peter_Pan

From our experience i would say

1. work at your own pace around your existing commitments, don't get caught up with your sponsors enthusiasm and allow them to push you.
2. If possible keep up your full time income (we made the mistake of letting other commitments slip because of the pace we were being pushed ), NM is much better done as an additional income not as a main income until you are earning enough from it and then bear in mind how much you will need to reinvest each month.

Too many people try to go full time in NM much too soon, the people i have known that have been successful are those that keep their full time jobs, work at a pace that allows them to do that comfortably and who probably reinvest most or all of their earnings back into growing it for several years prob realistically at least 5 yrs. All of the people who i have known who have joined because they really needed a second income for everyday expenses (including ourselves!) and have been caught up in the bigger picture of team building have fallen by the wayside after a few years because they can't keep up with the expense and time commitment needed to build it around family or other work commitments.

NikkiP_2

I agree PP
Any venture into NM should be on a part (spare) time basis to start with and you should NEVER give up your full time income until you are satisfied that YOU are able to generate income to cover all you need. Network Marketing does work and thousands of people can show you the cheques to prove it. BUT it doesnt't work for everyone, for whatever reason.
But I do say, don't knock it until you have tried it...properly !

thebusinessbloke

That implies that your Home Networking companies way of doing things is not a pyramid (it is a pyramid) and that you should be wary of other schemes that are. Now your saying pyramids are ok?

Tribulation really has got a bee in his bonnet about network marketing, but I do begin to take offense when I am misquoted or a spin is placed on what I say. Here's the thing then: in my original post I told you what we do, if you want to call that a pyramid scheme then off you go and have a wonderful time believing that.

Meanwhile, let's move on because I'm not interested in persuading anyone.

I think PP is correct about beginning the business part time; no one should quit their job until their stable income is at least exceeding their job income. I was fortunate enough to have a pension to look after me in the beginning.

And work at your pace - fantastic wisom; never accept anyone else's timetable for success, it's your life, your business so why have imposed on you pressure from above? If you want that then get a job.

Finally...network marketing has never let anyone down, people are often the causal problem whether overzealous, manipulative or unscrupulous...every industry has their problems and this is just the same.