Do I go bankrupt again?

Mouse007

Mouse007 wrote: »

I'm going to out this as a troll post, don't bother guys.

Point missed: hook. line and sinker.

bradztheman wrote: »

Its not fraud !!!!!!!!

I did my tax accounts myself and i did them correct however every single detail is now lost as ive sold my laptop so this is going to be very difficult to re do!

Which is utter BS, you still have your bank statements, you still have your receipts, you still have your CIS certificates. Putting it all together again should be easy. Unless, of course....

bradztheman wrote: »

I am not a ‘business’ as such, i am not a ltd company. Just a guy a works for companies the same as an employee would, but just under different rules being a subcontractor under CIS

bradztheman wrote: »

I do not run a business. I act as an employee but on a subcontractor (cis tax) basis. I am a painter, that works for a painting and decorating company, who choose to take me on as cis instead of employed as its cheaper for them taxwise. They win the jobs, price the work, etc, me and the others just do the painting work for them. So its exactly the same as being employed, just without the employee benefits.

In which case you are NOT self employed, should NOT be treated as being under CIS and should be ON the books as an employee (subject to PAYE). I’m sure the significance of this will be over most people’s head, especially yours.

There are no different rules, you’re either an employee or you are not, period. It’s not a question of choice but a question of fact. Your comments above say employee. A point a good accountant would spot immediately. A point which switches (tax and NIC) liability from you to your employer. All of it, every last penny.

For the record, I am an accountant.

coolcait

Mouse007 wrote: »

Point missed: hook. line and sinker.

I go through phases when dealing with suspected troll posts - sometimes I'm full-on gung-ho "Bring on the Billy Goats Gruff!"; sometimes I'm "Meh, who knows, give 'em a chance"; sometimes I'm "yeah, it's probably a troll but the thread's bringing out lots of info which could be useful to other people, so let's go with the info".

For now, I'm happy to let the Billy Goats Gruff graze in peace

Which is utter BS, you still have your bank statements, you still have your receipts, you still have your CIS certificates. Putting it all together again should be easy. Unless, of course....

As another poster said upthread (I'm paraphrasing), if the OP is not trying to avoid tax he certainly seems to be putting a lot of effort into making it look like that's what he's doing.

In which case you are NOT self employed, should NOT be treated as being under CIS and should be ON the books as an employee (subject to PAYE). I’m sure the significance of this will be over most people’s head, especially yours.

There are no different rules, you’re either an employee or you are not, period. It’s not a question of choice but a question of fact. Your comments above say employee. A point a good accountant would spot immediately. A point which switches (tax and NIC) liability from you to your employer. All of it, every last penny.

For the record, I am an accountant.

Equally, from the OP's descriptions of what he does, he is an individual - a self-employed sole trader - who is also a subcontractor not an employee and is under CIS quite correctly.

What is quite clear from the OP's posts is that he has not been completing his tax returns correctly. HMRC obviously suspect that this is deliberate. Some of the OP's posts don't help in that respect.

Some of the OP's other posts suggest that this could be a case of lack of understanding combined with a failure to listen.

If it's the latter, the OP has somewhere to go - should he choose to do so.

If HMRC are correct, and the OP still isn't listening? Que sera sera.

Mouse007

Nicely put.

coolcait wrote: »

... he is an individual - a self-employed sole trader - who is also a subcontractor not an employee and is under CIS quite correctly. ...

But is he self employed? I think on closer examination HMRC might take a different view.

Who sources the work? under who's control does he operate? who supplies the materials? who takes the risk? can he delegate the work (send a mate along)? Can he accept/refuse work? Can he choose when he does it (today, tomorrow, next week)? Does he have any other customers or is it always the same contractor? an employer pretending to be a contractor ducking his employer's NI liabilities.

He talkes about being in a master/servant relationship, that's employement not self employment.

bradztheman

Mouse007 wrote: »

Nicely put.



But is he self employed? I think on closer examination HMRC might take a different view.

Who sources the work? under who's control does he operate? who supplies the materials? who takes the risk? can he delegate the work (send a mate along)? Can he accept/refuse work? Can he choose when he does it (today, tomorrow, next week)? Does he have any other customers or is it always the same contractor? an employer pretending to be a contractor ducking his employer's NI liabilities.

He talkes about being in a master/servant relationship, that's employement not self employment.

Thats exactly it! Like I keep saying, its employment disguised as self employment cis. I do not own/run/manage a business of any sort. Many people don’t understand this.

If i had my own choice, I would choose to be employed with the company, as i would benefit more from employees benefits ie holiday pay etc.

Most companies operate on this basis now adays im afraid to say, its not right, and it means i can be in and out of work from one day to the next, literally!

The company supply materials, the company price the jobs, pay me on a weekly/monthly basis depending who i work for, AND take out my tax, the company set out health and safety coshh etc, the company choose where i work from one week/day to the next, i have no say.

fatbelly

bradztheman wrote: »

Thats exactly it! Like I keep saying, its employment disguised as self employment cis. I do not own/run/manage a business of any sort. Many people don’t understand this.

If i had my own choice, I would choose to be employed with the company, as i would benefit more from employees benefits ie holiday pay etc.

Most companies operate on this basis now adays im afraid to say, its not right, and it means i can be in and out of work from one day to the next, literally!

The company supply materials, the company price the jobs, pay me on a weekly/monthly basis depending who i work for, AND take out my tax, the company set out health and safety coshh etc, the company choose where i work from one week/day to the next, i have no say.

Sounds very much like employed status to me.

bradztheman

fatbelly wrote: »

Sounds very much like employed status to me.

It very much is, that’s why. But on paper it isn’t.

Thats what the construction industry consists of these days.

Like i say, if i had my choice, on paper i would choose to be an employee, but i don’t get that choice unfortunately, thats how companies take you on as nowadays, saves them paying your holiday pay etc and they can get rid of you easier without formal/written warnings etc. They can just turn around and say ‘got no more work for you’ if they don’t want you anymore

borkid

Whether he is self employed or not what it comes down to is he has no evidence of tax paid or expenses etc. That is the problem. Everyone whether self employed or employed needs to keeps paperwork for HMRC for at least 5 years.

bradztheman

borkid wrote: »

Whether he is self employed or not what it comes down to is he has no evidence of tax paid or expenses etc. That is the problem. Everyone whether self employed or employed needs to keeps paperwork for HMRC for at least 5 years.

No evidence of tax paid?

Do i have to explain myself again? Tax is always deducted each week or month from the company/companies i work for at 20%. So my tax is always paid as it comes out of my wages automatically.

What we are looking at here is hmrc saying i have overclaimed on expenses for my end of year tax rebate, and as a result charged me in penalties for each year, for 3 years.

borkid

bradztheman wrote: »

No evidence of tax paid?

Do i have to explain myself again? Tax is always deducted each week or month from the company/companies i work for at 20%. So my tax is always paid as it comes out of my wages automatically.

What we are looking at here is hmrc saying i have overclaimed on expenses for my end of year tax rebate, and as a result charged me in penalties for each year, for 3 years.

Doesn't matter whether tax is deducted. I used to PAYE but I STILL kept all paperwork connected to tax issues that doesn't just mean what you've paid but also expenses/allowances you are claiming for for at least 5 years. Everyone should regardless of whether they are selfemployed or not.

You have overclaimed on expenses according to HMRC you needed to keep receipts etc relating to your claim for 5 years. You haven't done this so have no proof of whether your claim is correct or not.

piper89

You tried to milk the system and got busted due to your own greed and stupidity you might get more than a fraud marker for this one...........


As for the milage, yes, i travelled 96 miles a day to and from home to work (48 miles each way ) for pretty much the whole year, although i have allowed for approx 20 days a month (subtracting weekends).

In the process of moving i lost my fuel receipts, but i can still prove where i worked and that my car clocked up alot of milage.
by bradztheman” sorry but you need to step up a gear in terms of your care and attention to your records. If HMRC ever challenge you to prove your expenses claimed them they will want to see a mileage log listing every single business trip you made. Simply stating it was a round sum per day for x days is inadequate. As per the links I gave you, you are expected to keep your records!

“ Looks like they are going to end up owing ME more money looking at how my milage has worked out, last years rebate came to £3500, thats with my 20% personal allowance of £2000 automatically, but i worked out the milage originally to only claim 20% of the £7000 total that ive got, someone told me i could only claim a percentage of that, looks like they were wrong as ive now been told by a couple of people i can claim the whole lot.
by bradztheman”
there is no such thing as a "20% personal allowance". Either you are badly wording yourself or you have made a complete mess.

as I explained above the self employed calculate their net profit, they do not claim tax relief on their costs incurred. It sounds like you need an accountant to go over your books and check what you are doing, although of course as you have lost your records that may prove rather hard ? Last edited by booksurr; 13-12-2016 at 11:26 AM.