Do I go bankrupt again?

bradztheman

haras_nosirrah wrote: »

Hmrc are asking you to prove your accounts are correct by providing evidence. You can't as you have got rid of everything therefore they are assuming you are lying and will proceed accordingly. You say you have done your accounts correct but some of the figures you have put on here are wrong e.g. 50p a mile mileage. They are presuming you are guilty unless you can provide evidence of your innocence.

Trying to save a few £100 on an accountant has bitten you hard here and I can sympathize with that but you are now on hmrc's radar and once they get a bite they will not let go. You need an accountant and you need to comply as much as possible. Saying to them I can't prove it and I will just go bankrupt anyway is not going to help you. You are meant to keep records including all receipts for 5 years. You are coming across on here as very lackadaisical. You need professional help as if they go down the fraud route which they could well do a bankruptcy will not get you out of it.

Right, ok but i can’t pay what i can’t afford. To me £10,000 of penatlies are absolutely insane i do see how they can charge such a figure! At this moment in time, i am depressed and suicidle which IS. Mental health issue. Last year I attempted suicide and was very close. The same thing is nearing. Its so much pressure and stress on me, soon i wont be able to work and pay off their penalties so i dont see how they can make me do so!! Obviously i will pay what i owe but as a long term sufferer of depression, this is making me worse.

haras_nosirrah

can you speak to business debtline and see what they suggest? No debt is worth doing what cannot be undone and there will be a way out of it but you need help.

enthusiasticsaver

I don't think bankruptcy will make the HMRC debt go away. They have other powers like attachment of earnings etc. As others have said you need an accountant to sort out this mess.

borkid

bradztheman wrote: »

So how do you think i did my own tax returns???

I did it on my laptop which has now been sold! I have no backup and didnt even think about my tax returns to be honest as they had been done and i didnt think anything else of it, therefor all my workings out have gone!

Some people are more organised than others i guess

I didn't say you never had it just that why wouldn't you make a backup copy and keep it as records need to be kept for at least 5 years. Your reasons to the cynics of this world suggest fraud.

As you are now aware you aren't that organised hopefully that'll be remedied in all future dealings with 'people' be they governemnt bodies or your ' clients'.

bradztheman

borkid wrote: »

I didn't say you never had it just that why wouldn't you make a backup copy and keep it as records need to be kept for at least 5 years. Your reasons to the cynics of this world suggest fraud.

As you are now aware you aren't that organised hopefully that'll be remedied in all future dealings with 'people' be they governemnt bodies or your ' clients'.

I am not a ‘business’ as such, i am not a ltd company. Just a guy a works for companies the same as an employee would, but just under different rules being a subcontractor under CIS

haras_nosirrah

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/tax/11086393/An-accountants-guide-to-surviving-a-tax-investigation.html

GazHatesBanks

First things first - did you sell the laptop to someone that you know? If so do they still have the files that you created on there?

If not and you've lost the electronic calculation that you made originally, then do you still have the paperwork - bank statements, CIS statements, receipts, diaries, etc?

HMRC have asked you to prove your return and without some form of backup documentation you will not be able to do it. Even if you have to reconstruct your accounts from bank statements this is better than nothing and at least shows that any discrepancies are likely to be an innocent error rather than a deliberate action.

If you don't have the bank statements, then do a subject access report (SAR) to your bank for the years that you need them - will cost £10 and rebuild your income/expenses from that.

As for the original tax returns, these should be view-able on the HMRC website (where you file them) - download and print these off as you may need them now or at a later date.

If your new calculations don't match to the original returns then explain why you think that is - they're not going to be overly interested in a few pounds out, but if you are thousands out they will want a more detailed reason. If you can show that your original tax return was substantially correct then HMRC will be able to substantially reduce any penalties.

In the meantime, contact HMRC and ask them for additional time while you pull out the original paperwork (they may not give you much time, but keeping them informed is always better than not).

Remember, it's not whether you, I or any other poster thinks you have acted fraudulently or not, it's what HMRC (and potentially the OR) think that matters. The destruction of all accounting records tends to lead people to think that fraud is involved, but if you are up-front and can recompile as much of the information as possible then it is much more likely to be viewed as an error.

GazHatesBanks

enthusiasticsaver wrote: »

I don't think bankruptcy will make the HMRC debt go away. They have other powers like attachment of earnings etc. As others have said you need an accountant to sort out this mess.

If it's classed as an error/inability to pay then the debt will be included in the bankruptcy. Only fraudulent actions would prevent the debt from being included.

Merlin139

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4944786

Check out Post #7

my accountant is good though

GazHatesBanks

bradztheman wrote: »

I am not a ‘business’ as such, i am not a ltd company. Just a guy a works for companies the same as an employee would, but just under different rules being a subcontractor under CIS

Sorry, but in the eyes of HMRC you are a business albeit a self-employed sole trader and not a ltd company. This makes you liable to be treated as a business and includes the requirement to make sure you keep your records for at least 5 years.

What's done is done and hopefully you can find a way through it,but for the future make sure you keep EVERYTHING related to your work/employment.