Parking charge paid by Car Rental Company

NotSoLuckyLuke

Thank you very much Coupon-mad. I don't know how to thank you for writing this defence.
If you support any charities please let me know and I will make a donation.


Few things which need correcting:

Point 3. Leasehold was from 20/3/17 until 13/4/17 and
Point 4. two months
Point 7.1 'court letter' as GB vehicle described it was the letter from Wright Hassall Solicitors which was sent to GB Vehicle Hire and is dated 23/10/2017. This letter was attached to letter dated 02/11/2017 from GB to me, where they demanded reimbursement.

Letter from 02/11/17 read:

"You hired a Vauxhall Astra from us on the 20/03/2017 and returned it back to us on the 13/04/2017. During this period you incurred a parking fine at Summer Row Car Park on the 03/04/2017. We have received a Court letter regarding this fine so we have had to pay it to prevent Court action against us even though it was yourself driving the vehicle
We now have to recover this money from you.
The amount outstanding is as follows:
£208.00 for the Parking Fine
£25.00 Administration Fee

Total amount outstanding £233.00"

Then it threatens me with the CCJ which I previously described,

On the letter from Wright Hassall Solicitors, someone wrote 'pies' in red marker, it well may be 'paid' but does not look like it.

Point 10. Until today I still have not received any documentation. The claim form is dated 01/12/17 so if I understand that right I need to send the defence by 20/12/17. I still have some time to receive this evidence.

Lastly, I will list the letters which I have

I. Letter from PCN Admin Centre (address May Court Links Business Centre Old Working Road Woking Surrey GU22 8BF) dated 02/08/17 to GB Vehicle Hire. This is the letter my friend collected on the 06/11/17 and asked office clerk to write received on 06/11/2017 and sign it.
II. Letter from Wright Hassall Solicitors to GB Vehicle Hire dated 23/10/2017 - this letter was attached to letter from GB to me dated 02/11/17
III. Letter to me from ZZPS (address May Court Links Business Centre Old Woking Road Woking Surrey GU22 8BF) dated 23/10/17
IV. Letter to me from ZZPS dated 06/11/17
V. Two letters to me from GB dated 02/11/17 & 17/11/2017
VI. Printed E-mail attached to letter dated 17/11/2017. This e-mail was exchanged between GB and customerservices@zzzps.co.uk on 17/11/2017 09:50
It reads:
"Good morning
Thank you for your call
As requested, this email is being sent to confirm the dates we sent out correspondence to the driver of this vehicle. Please note, the driver has called in the response to our letters dated 08/11/2017.
We sent out tow letters dated 23/10/2017 and 06/11/2017.
I can confirm a payment has been made and the matter is now closed."

I hope that helps

Once more thank you very much for your great effort.
Please let me know if I can do anything to repay this great favour of yours.

Coupon-mad

Point 7.1 'court letter' as GB vehicle described it was the letter from Wright Hassall Solicitors which was sent to GB Vehicle Hire and is dated 23/10/2017. This letter was attached to letter dated 02/11/2017 from GB to me, where they demanded reimbursement.

So, did a letter actually arrive addressed to you at all, from ZZPS or WH?

If not then the defence will need changing, as it works on the understanding that the hire firm must have given ZZPS your data (which would have been OK if they'd done so quicker, so you could have appealed and won at POPLA).

NotSoLuckyLuke

I received 2 letters from ZZPS dated 23/10/2017 & 06/11/2017 (these were addressed to me)

Rest of the letters were addressed to GB Vehicle Hire:

One letter from Letter from PCN Admin Centre to GB Vehicle Hire dated 02/08/17 obtained by my friend in person, when he visited GB Vehicle Hire office on 06/11/2017.
(this is when he went to their office to see if they have any evidence of my unauthorised parking event.

Rest of the documents I received by post from GB Vehicle Hire (these were attached to their correspondence and were addressed to them), as listed in the previous post.

Letter from Wright Hassall Solicitors to GB Vehicle Hire dated 23/10/2017 - this letter was attached to letter from GB to me dated 02/11/17 - I believe this was the letter, which GB Vehicle Hire described as 'court letter'

Thank you.

[Deleted User]

I've not scrolled through to find the Particulars assuming they are linked somewhere. In answer to the point raised by Coupon-Mad (post #31) and flagged. The rules are these - and fairly clear:

Particulars of claim
7.4
(1) Particulars of claim must –
(a) be contained in or served with the claim form; or
(b) subject to paragraph (2) be served on the defendant by the claimant within 14 days after service of the claim form.
(2) Particulars of claim must be served on the defendant no later than the latest time for serving a claim form.

Defence
15.4
(1) The general rule is that the period for filing a defence is –
(a) 14 days after service of the particulars of claim; or
(b) if the defendant files an acknowledgment of service under Part 10, 28 days after service of the particulars of claim.

The Claimant is out of time. My view (other views/interpretations are available) is that you should write to the Defendant and tell them that they are out of time. If it were me, I would also write tot he Court, copying in the Claimant:
(i) to ask that the claim is struck out,
(ii) explaining that you have not lodged a defence for want of the Particulars and in accordance with the CPR.

Thus far, the Claimants seem to have muddled through avoiding that sanction, but one day they will come unstuck I imagine... At present, you cannot yet know what case you have to answer, because (presumably) you have not seen the whole case. The Defence is a reply to allegations of (in this case) breach of contract. The failure to plead the case prevents the defence being properly and fully prepared. If you do a defence now, you'll only have to amend it once the Claimant does serve particulars. It's why I think an unspecified case ought to be booted out.

BUT and it's a big one. The court has wide powers. See also:

Court’s power to dispense with statements of case
16.8 If a claim form has been –
(a) issued in accordance with rule 7.2; and
(b) served in accordance with rule 7.5,
the court may make an order that the claim will continue without any other statement of case.

Note that even this last exception still requires an Order from the Court for the claim to proceed regardless. As such, until one is made, on any reading of the rule, it is still not necessary to serve a defence.

Coupon-mad

Do what Johnersh says.

Keep the defence in your back pocket for tweaking later, if needed.

logician

pappa_golf wrote: »

Yes, valid VAT number

Member State GB
VAT Number GB 925375608
Date when request received 2017/12/10 19:08:56
Name GB VEHICLE HIRE (BIRMINGHAM) LTD
Address 26A SHORT HEATH ROAD
ERDINGTON
BIRMINGHAM

B23 6JP
Consultation Number

but yet the full company name comes back to https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/06394656

NotSoLuckyLuke wrote: »

Hello Coupon-Mad

Thank you for your reply:

Parking Event happened on 03/04/17 15:15 Summer Row Car Park, Birmingham University, Birmingham - Summer Row Carpark, Birmingham, West Midlands B3 1JB (There is no car park at this location by the way)

Claimant: G B VEHICLE HIRE Birmingham

Contact Information

GB Vehicle Hire

26a Short Heath Road

Erdington

BIRMINGHAM

West Midlands

B23 6JP (Map)

Tel: 0121 624 2255

Fax: 0121 624 2588

Email: contact@gbvehiclehire.co.uk

T&C were at the back of Hire Agreement (it was double printed 1 piece of paper). I have only signed the first page of Hire Agreement, one with my name and bank details etc. Have not signed T&C section.


I have cited their T&C before:
(this is Fixed Penalties etc. section only) If you wish I can type in remaining bit as well

Below Terms and Conditions of GB Vehicle Hire:

Fixed Penalties etc.
15. The hirer shall be liable as the owner of the vehicle in respect of: -
a) Any fixed penalty offence committed in respect of that vehicle under Part III and the relevant schedules of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 as amended by the Parking Act 1989 and as those provisions may be amended or replaced from time to time and
b) Any excess charge which may be incurred in respect of the vehicle in pursuance of an order under Section 45 and 46 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 as amended by the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 and by the Parking Act 1989 and as those provisions may be amended or replaced from time to time and
c) Any financial penalty or charge which may be demanded by any person, corporation or Authority as a result of the vehicle having been parked or left upon land which is not a public road"

There is no company name in T&C but on Hire Agreement is stated GB Vehicle Hire B'ham 0121 624 2255 on a Claimant Form GB Vehicle Hire Birmingham LTD 26A Short Heath Road B23 6JP.

I hope that helps.

Interesting the website for the domain with that email leads to this site

https://www.gbvehiclehire.co.uk/contact-us/

Details matching what the OP has put

whois lists this as

Domain name:
gbvehiclehire.co.uk

Registrant:
GREAT BRITAIN CAR & VAN RENTAL

Registrant type:
Unknown

Registrant's address:
26 SHORT HEATH ROAD
Birmingham
B23 6JP
United Kingdom

logician

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Do what Johnersh says.

Keep the defence in your back pocket for tweaking later, if needed.

Johnersh wrote: »

I

The Claimant is out of time. My view (other views/interpretations are available) is that you should write to the Defendant and tell them that they are out of time. If it were me, I would also write tot he Court, copying in the Claimant:
(i) to ask that the claim is struck out,
(ii) explaining that you have not lodged a defence for want of the Particulars and in accordance with the CPR.

T.

NotSoLuckyLuke wrote: »

On the 01/12/17 I received a letter from County Court Business Centre which says:

Particulars of Claim
Customer received a parking fine and refused to pay it. We have paid the fine and we are claiming the money back from the customer. The customer signed the Owner Liability on the Hire Agreement Form which holds the customer liable for any fines relating to the hire of one of our vehicles.
I will provide the defendant with separate detailed particulars within 14 days after service of the claim form. The claimant claims interest under section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from 19/11/2017 to 301/112017 on £233 and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment and a daily rate of %1.00.%

I understand that I have 14 days to respond to this Claim Form. Could you please advise me on how I should be progressing this case.

Any comments will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you very much.

No don't do what Johnersh states (yet) - we do not even know if the time has expired yet for the additional POCs to be served...

He has even muddled up Claimant/Defendant again in his posts. For someone who is meant to be legally trained - skim reading posts / threads then providing misleading information which should not be provided without ascertaining ALL THE KEY information.

@ NotSoLuckyLuke - what is the issue date on the claim form?

You state you received this on the 1st December.

The claim is deemed served 5 days after the issue date.

the additional particulars of claim need to be served within 14 days of SERVICE of the claim

[Deleted User]

For someone who is meant to be legally trained - skim reading posts / threads then providing misleading information which should not be provided without ascertaining ALL THE KEY information.

Ahem. In the finest "Blue Peter fashion" here's one from earlier. Handy link for ease of reference.

I deleted my original post as i skim read the opening post and was unsure whether the OP was the Defendant as well or posting on behalf of the Defendant.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=73531713

Contemulious remarks are all very well, but aren't logical when there ought to be a common goal.

[Deleted User]

It's up to the o/p what he does next, but self evidently he needs to ensure the Claimant is overdue before writing and saying so. This is a forum not an instruction manual. Noone can have all of the information other than the o/p. The primary question I was addressing was whether to serve a defence and I made that clear.

I welcome (productive) discussion; I have made that clear. Merry Christmas
:xmastree:

NotSoLuckyLuke

Thank you very much to each of you for your feedback and effort put into my case.

I would like to do what Johnersh is suggesting, but have few questions about it:

I. Do I just need to write the letter to the court asking for the claim to be struck due to the fact that Particulars of Claims have not been provided to me within 14 days?
II. The Claim Form was sent to me on 01/12/17, do I understand that right that I have time to respond until 20/12/17?
III. When is the last date I should receive the Particulars of Claims? Is it 15/12/17?
IV. On the first page of the Claim Form under my contact details and Defendant is sated:

Particulars of Claim
Customer received a parking fine and refused to pay it. We have paid the fine and we are claiming the money back from the customer. The customer signed the Owner Liability on the Hire Agreement Form which holds the customer liable for any fines relating to the hire of one of our vehicles.
I will provide the defendant with separate detailed particulars within 14 days after service of the claim form. The claimant claims interest under section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from 19/11/2017 to 301/112017 on £233 and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment and a daily rate of £1.00.

Are the above Particular of Claims, or I shall be sent something else? If I am going to be sent something else, would that eventually be the evidence of my parking event, which I still don't recall?

V. Shall I respond by post or on-line?

If I could ask last favour, please... Could someone help with what I should write to the court, please.
I would not like to make any mistakes.

Thank you for your great help and pieces of advice.