Smart Meters

oldandwizend

Highland76 said:

Petriix said:

There's plenty of genuine reasons to dislike smart meters without making stuff up: the fact that they are replacing perfectly functional existing meters at great expense which we are all having to pay through increased bills based on the dishonest assertion that they could somehow reduce people's energy costs is more than enough reason to reject one.

Can you please provide evidence that bills have increased as a result of smart meters? I'd say the opposite in fact, because looking at the cheapest tariffs on energy price comparison websites such as Uswitch or MSE Cheap Energy Club, many of the cheapest tariffs insist (in the t&c's) that you agree to take out a smart meter if you don't already have one. Strange way to increase bills eh?

Tariffs are forever changing so it would be difficult to prove one way or the other. What I do think is that the compulsory fitting of a smart meter to enjoy a cheaper tariff should not be allowed until they are available to all customers.. There are still numerous households where a smart meter is not practical (no mobile signal etc.) so these customers cannot get these lower tariffs. As smart meter installation is ultimately paid for by the customer then you could argue that those who cannot have such a meter are effectively paying for installations to benefit others.

MWT

Just as a small counter-point to the proposition that 'Smart Meters can't reduce energy bills', they do let you access some specialized tariffs like Octopus Agile which can then deliver significant savings. I'm currently achieving an average of around 8p/kWh over the last 7 months (including standing charge).

Just having one installed doesn't do anything for you, but using it the way it was intended to be used can deliver savings...

Highland76

@oldandwizend
Yet there are numerous threads on MSE of folks taking out one of the cheapest smart meter only tariff via a comparison site - usually with a 'big 6' supplier - and then whinging like crazy that they're getting hassled to install smart meters by the new supplier. Most, if not all, such people choose not to get a smart meter installed rather than being down to a technical reason. Talk about having your cake and want to eat it too....

carl.waring

oldandwizend said:

Highland76 said:

Petriix said:

There's plenty of genuine reasons to dislike smart meters without making stuff up: the fact that they are replacing perfectly functional existing meters at great expense which we are all having to pay through increased bills based on the dishonest assertion that they could somehow reduce people's energy costs is more than enough reason to reject one.

Can you please provide evidence that bills have increased as a result of smart meters? I'd say the opposite in fact, because looking at the cheapest tariffs on energy price comparison websites such as Uswitch or MSE Cheap Energy Club, many of the cheapest tariffs insist (in the t&c's) that you agree to take out a smart meter if you don't already have one. Strange way to increase bills eh?

Tariffs are forever changing so it would be difficult to prove one way or the other. What I do think is that the compulsory fitting of a smart meter to enjoy a cheaper tariff should not be allowed until they are available to all customers.. There are still numerous households where a smart meter is not practical (no mobile signal etc.) so these customers cannot get these lower tariffs. As smart meter installation is ultimately paid for by the customer then you could argue that those who cannot have such a meter are effectively paying for installations to benefit others.

I can only speak from my experience with npower but they do allow anyone to have any tariff that requires a smart meter as along as they agree to have one installed when they become eligible. eg when the signal in the area is working, as in your example.

oldandwizend

carl.waring said:

oldandwizend said:

Highland76 said:

Petriix said:

There's plenty of genuine reasons to dislike smart meters without making stuff up: the fact that they are replacing perfectly functional existing meters at great expense which we are all having to pay through increased bills based on the dishonest assertion that they could somehow reduce people's energy costs is more than enough reason to reject one.

Can you please provide evidence that bills have increased as a result of smart meters? I'd say the opposite in fact, because looking at the cheapest tariffs on energy price comparison websites such as Uswitch or MSE Cheap Energy Club, many of the cheapest tariffs insist (in the t&c's) that you agree to take out a smart meter if you don't already have one. Strange way to increase bills eh?

Tariffs are forever changing so it would be difficult to prove one way or the other. What I do think is that the compulsory fitting of a smart meter to enjoy a cheaper tariff should not be allowed until they are available to all customers.. There are still numerous households where a smart meter is not practical (no mobile signal etc.) so these customers cannot get these lower tariffs. As smart meter installation is ultimately paid for by the customer then you could argue that those who cannot have such a meter are effectively paying for installations to benefit others.

I can only speak from my experience with npower but they do allow anyone to have any tariff that requires a smart meter as along as they agree to have one installed when they become eligible. eg when the signal in the area is working, as in your example.

Good to know that, thanks. Maybe Ofgem should take the lead and mandate all suppliers to follow npower's lead.

I'll ask them. Any odds on a positive response?

Gerry1

Highland76 said:

Petriix said:

There's plenty of genuine reasons to dislike smart meters without making stuff up: the fact that they are replacing perfectly functional existing meters at great expense which we are all having to pay through increased bills based on the dishonest assertion that they could somehow reduce people's energy costs is more than enough reason to reject one.

Can you please provide evidence that bills have increased as a result of smart meters?

Installing smart meters works out about about £475 per household.

Who do you think pays for that, if not the energy customers?

If smart meters were not being installed then obviously our bills could be lower.

It's no coincidence that the cheapest suppliers tend to be those that haven't been installing smart meters.

Highland76

No Gerry1, it’s the energy companies paying for the smart meters. However the cost of providing free smart meters is just a tiny fraction of the energy debts owed by customers who hardly ever provide a meter reading and/or use copious amounts of energy but don’t pay for it fully. Unless you think it’s ok for energy companies to provide free energy? With smart meters estimated bills are a thing of the past, at the very least it will open the eyes of certain customers who see how much energy they are using. Or to be very blunt, smart meter customers can have their energy supply disconnected earlier if they refuse to pay their bills. So that £475 investment may well save the energy companies £1000s in unpaid energy bills. 

Please - for the millionth time - don’t assume everyone is as energy savvy as you. 

Gerry1

Highland76 said:

No Gerry1, it’s the energy companies paying for the smart meters.

Yeah, right.  Silly me, I forgot that the energy companies just shake the Magic Money Tree to find those billions !  

But why don't they keep shaking the Magic Money Tree so that we can all have free energy as well as free smart meters?

Hey, you've really hit on something - we wouldn't need any meters at all then !

Highland76

You’re doing it again Gerry1, judging others by your own standards. You’re assuming everyone - like you - pays their bills on time and is never in debt. I’ll spell it for you again as you seem to have ignored the rest of my previous post. That £475 smart meter cost pretty much guarantees the energy company won’t be giving out free energy to the tune of £1000s to any smart meter customer as is the case currently with many customers on standard meters. 

oldandwizend

Highland76 said:

No Gerry1, it’s the energy companies paying for the smart meters. However the cost of providing free smart meters is just a tiny fraction of the energy debts owed by customers who hardly ever provide a meter reading and/or use copious amounts of energy but don’t pay for it fully. Unless you think it’s ok for energy companies to provide free energy? With smart meters estimated bills are a thing of the past, at the very least it will open the eyes of certain customers who see how much energy they are using. Or to be very blunt, smart meter customers can have their energy supply disconnected earlier if they refuse to pay their bills. So that £475 investment may well save the energy companies £1000s in unpaid energy bills. 

Please - for the millionth time - don’t assume everyone is as energy savvy as you. 

Admittedly 2 to 3 years ago but

"An investigation into the energy market by the Competition and Markets Authority concluded last year that the big six suppliers were overcharging by £1.4bn annually"

I doubt little has changed so £1000s in unpaid bills may be miniscule in comparison to overcharging.

Unfortunately far too many people do not bother comparing tariffs and just stick with what they have.

Some companies do, at least, now tell you that you may be better with a different tariff/supplier but it is a bit half hearted and how many people bother reading their bills in detail to see this?

Newer and smaller companies are starting to stir the market up a bit but doubt is being cast on how long they will survive.

Regrettably it is a fact of modern life that the 'savvy' ones will always do better in most aspects of day to day life. We now live in a world where, for a large percentage of people, it is 'me, me, me and sod you'. Recent activity on beaches, marches, pubs etc. etc. proves the point.