'There’s something ugly about leaving a woman and baby at a bus stop' blog discussion

Rave

I'm a London bus driver. I have to take issue with Martin's comment that "Sometimes health and safety rules go a bit far". It is the driver's sole responsibility to ensure the safety of all the passengers on the bus. That means it's their responsibility to ensure that the vehicle is in a safe condition, that it's driven safely, and that it's not loaded in such a way that the safety of the passengers is compromised (or potentially compromised). What if (say) the mother with the third buggy had got on, been forced to park it in the aisle, and then someone had pulled out in front of the bus causing it to crash or brake suddenly, in turn sending a standing 20-stone passenger flying onto the pram, crushing the baby to death? Or what if some yobs/schoolkids (little to distinguish them these days, I find;)) had started a fire on the upper deck, sending a crush of frightened passengers rushing down the stairs only to find the exit door blocked by a buggy? Of course both these events are pretty unlikely to happen, but if they did the driver would be at very real risk of losing their licence (and thus their job), and possibly even their liberty if they were ultimately adjudged to have been responsible for someone's death.

Sorry, but that's not a risk I'm happy to take to save somebody from some inconvenience. Occasionally I'll let a third unfolded buggy onto the bus if I know that the bus is otherwise largely empty and that at least one of the other buggies will be getting off at the shopping centre two stops up the road- but I really shouldn't. I once let my attention slip and let four buggies on, and it caused mayhem- arguments between passengers, old ladies threatening to report me etc. etc. The bus may be quiet now, but that doesn't mean there aren't 40 people quewing up just down the road (as there were that day, of course:rolleyes:).

However- that said, I take no pleasure at all in refusing people with buggies entry to the bus, and I very much doubt that any of my colleagues would either. People trying to blag a free ride- oh yes, I enjoy kicking those poncing gits off, but parents, no.

basil01 wrote: »

A lot of parents these days buy those huge, very expensive and nigh impossible to fold down quickly and flat prams.

Yes, exactly. Those huge monster-SUV-4x4-offroad buggy-!!!-tanks are one of my biggest annoyances- doubly so if they contain a clearly overweight three year old, and tripply so if they're attempting to bring it on in the middle of the rush hour:mad:.

In over a year of driving I don't believe that I have ever had cause to refuse entry to anyone who was willing to fold their pram/buggy (or, occasionally, to lift it unfolded but sans-child into the luggage rack). Additionally, the wheelchair/pram space in both the types of buses I drive, and in my experience most other types, will accomodate three small buggies side by side, but only two monster-truck prams. So, if you're a parent and you want to maximise your chances of getting on the first bus that comes along, get a small buggy, and be willing to fold it up. Additionally, if you have the luxury of choice, think about travelling at quieter times of day- 11am-3pm, or after 7.30pm.

As for those of you suggesting that the driver should have tried to encourage the other people on the bus to fold their prams up, or otherwise marshall the other passengers to assist- I don't mean to sound rude, but get real. Drivers have plenty to worry about as it is, not least getting the bus to its destination vaguely on time. First come first served is the only realistic option.

Edit- I tried to write buggy-c u m-tanks, only to find that the swear filter edited it out! Since when did a perfectly legitimate word like c u m become debased to the extent that inclusion in a swear filter is necessary?:( And- what interesting threads must I have missed on here?:p

Judith_Proctor

Smiley_Mum wrote: »

The bus driver said he couldn't help me, regulations or something or other..

Sadly, I know why regulations are like that. I know of one case where a driver helped a passenger in a wheelchair - the wheelchair user accelerated at the wrong moment and had an accident and promptly sued the bus company and cost them a lot of money.

That company now has regulations that forbid drivers to assist wheelchair users - they'd love to, but they can't afford to be sued again.

I suspect the same logic lies behind forbidding multiple prams. If there's an accident and there were more prams than the bus is supposed to carry, the odds are high that the same parents who curse the driver for not letting them bring on that extra pram, will turn out to be the ones who sue for having been allowed on when it wasn't 100% safe. (Or some other passenger who got hit by the pram will sue)

Basically, a small minority who will sue at the drop of a hat sour things for everyone else.

martyncr

There is no 'buggy bay' on London Buses, the bay is for a single wheelchair (route 205 carries more) but buggies may use it if it is not required. Buses can, as I understand it, only carry two buggies, which must both be folded at busy times if required. I do understand the difficulties parents face. I also understand what it is like to be left on the pavement, in heavy rain, trying to wrestle with my wheelchair because my raincoat is acting like a sail, because a mother/father has a buggy that "doesn't fold".

In my experience many young mothers seem to think they are above the rules. I have to echo the bus drivers comments, in an earlier post, about the safety issues. I am required to put the wheelchair in the bay with my back to the driver. There simply isn't room in many vehicles for an unfolded buggy in the remainder of the bay. I cannot leave the chair and cannot park it in the middle of the gangway or by the doors as often expected too. I can only travel in the wheelchair bay, Mum and baby do at least have other options.

I have met some wonderful parents out and about in London and some who I don't care to remember. One woman, with three small children in tow, had them parked and her buggy folded on the luggage area before the ramp had got halfway to the pavement, having seen me hail the bus. She then went on to apologise for holding me up! Conversely .. well lets not go there, its sufficive to say that I've been frequently abused in various ways.

You can help us best by folding your buggies, and giving us room to manouvere our chairs into the bay. I appreciate being asked if I require help. Please remember that you can get the next bus ... we may have to wait an hour or longer for the next free wheelchair bay, especially in central London. Finally do please spare a thought for the parents who have to deal with both their child and their own wheelchair.

squashy

GreyPilgrim wrote: »

I'll admit to losing a great deal of respect for Martin if having witnessed this event, his only thought was 'Hmmm...I must post this information on my blog' rather than doing something to help like suggesting to the woman she fold her buggy, or maybe remonstrating with the driver for some common sense / compassion.

My first thought exactly!! Come on Martin, why didn't you help??

toniwoty2009

i recently recieved some sub-standard treatment from a bus driver. i walked to my local bus stop with my 18 month old son (who by the way i didn't have in a pushchair), it was pouring down with rain but i had no choice as i had to get to work (it was around 1pm). we got there and eventually the bus turned up, i only had a £5 note and the (female) bus driver told me to pop into the shop opposite, get some change and come back. whilst i went into the shop she drove away. leaving me and my son soaking wet and having to wait another hour for another bus (we live in a small village with irregular buses). :mad:
i complained to the bus company to be honest because i thought it was appauling. i know they want buses to be on time, etc but the bus company even told me she should have issued me a 'To Pay' ticket voucher and i could have gone to the local bus garage and paid for the ticket within 7 days! instead she chose to leave us there.....
not a happy bunny!

Chezza71

When my son was small I caught the bus to work and he was in a buggy. Where I live we have special buses which the driver can lower the floor to let buggies on easily without having to collapse and there two or three spaces to put them. On one occasion I was told by the bus driver that I would have to collapse my buggy - even though there was plenty of room on the bus. But I duly did as I was asked and got my young son out and collapsed the buggy - all the while the bus and passengers waiting for me. To say I was annoyed is an understatement. I sat there fuming and writing the complaint letter in my head. As soon as I could I wrote to the bus company explaining what had happened and enclosing my bus ticket. I got a letter back saying that the driver had been spoken to and that this shouldn't have happened. I felt better for that!

lindseykim13

littleowl wrote: »

Whatever is the matter with modern mothers? Supermarkets give you endless spaces for 'mother and child' parking - why? When you park you have a buggy or pram with wheels - why do you need to be so close to the entrance? My sister had to fight for four years to obtain a disabled parking badge to enable her to park in a space wide enough to allow her to get out of her car without contorting herself into a position of great pain.

And lastly - a plea - could you please stop your brats screaming in supermarkets and elsewhere? I would have quickly removed a child of mine that had done that but no - the aisles are filled with out of control children emitting that piercing screetch which I, for one, find excruciating.

There are a damn sight more cars in car pasrks these days with idiots who drive them, do you think it is safe to cart 2 perhaps 3 children or more across a busy car park where morans reverse before looking, i've nearly been run over many times cause people dont look, the parking spaces for those with children are for safety reasons, and you'll find those with disabled badges still use them also.

And please dont tarnish us parents with the same brush i know which type of parenting you are talking about but find it very unfair that i and other mothers who still have morals and respect for other people are treated the same as those who don't.
I'm sure you stopped your shopping half way around the store to remove your child because they were screaming and then never fed them because you couldn't finish your shopping, think you may have forgotten how a toddler behaves.
If you don't like it shop online i do!

I'm sure as hell keeping my child on board sign in the car then if it will ensure my children will be looked for in an accident, have you ever had a chav up your !!! when you have a baby in the car and yes they do work as mine has fallen down before and i do notice that i get more idiots tailgating me!

As for the whole bus/ buggy debate i used to get left standing in the rain and its not the drivers fault most of the time, thats why i got a car no more buses!

lindseykim13

goldspanners wrote: »

as for the "baby/princess/child/ on board stickers" they are so pointless,if your child is so precious and dont want to risk any injury to them,dont take them in the car,i really dont care who is on board the vehicle in front of me,it wont stop me driving the way i always do,and doubt it would alter anyones driving.

not a problem if you drive sensibly in the first place these signs are intended for the idiots who drive up my !!! to perhaps make them think and back off a bit, if these signs save one childs life your telling me they're not worth it?

Unless of course your saying that you are one of these drivers who drive up peoples asses and you dont care that they have children in the car? in which case you should be banned?

You've obviously noticed them so they do work don't they?

PasturesNew

The driver apologised that he couldn't help but it was to do with company policy etc.

There are quite a few issues, thinking it through on the fly:
1] what happens if he has an accident of any sort helping out? If he's off sick, or breaks something so he can't continue driving that bus
2] could be a trap these days - to mug him
3] if he were to get out he'd have to turn the engine off, or he'd be breaking the law about not being in control of the vehicle.... and if he parked the bus, he'd be in breach of laws about "no parking"
4] buses are to timetables. Stopping and helping people would potentially make him late, so passengers on the bus and going to an appointment (or train/plane/2nd bus) might get annoyed at delays + further up the line would be people waiting for the late bus. Bus drivers are penalised wages if their bus is too late or even early. They have to be on time at the stops.

sooz

Scarlett1 wrote: »

I could just imagine a parent carrying their 3 year old in a sling :rotfl:

Why would anyone need to CARRY a 3 year old? Or why should a 3 year old need to be in a pushchair?

Most of them are very capable of walking at 3 years old :rolleyes:

And if it's too far for you or them to walk...that is why you are taking the bus

The parent is being lazy. It's easier to put a child into a buggy and hang all your shopping off the back, than to actually teach your child how to hold your hand, and stop before crossing the road, and carry their own (small amount of) stuff.

At my son's school, some mums still push their little darlings in a pushchair to reception classes. The children in question are 5! :eek: