Private firms RENTING land

Redx

I do not believe that TESCO are the landowners for a small express type shop

they could be , but that "deputy manager" indicated they werent , so I believe that part of his "story"

it could be British Land , a pension fund like in the BEAVIS case, some property speculator , an insurance company , devere , Peel Holdings , could be anyone

if you really want to know, pay the Land Registry and find out

NGPM will be acting on behlaf of somebody , and that somebody has to have a contract with the landlord who should have a contract with the landowner

so there has to be one or several contracts in place , each passing it on like a baton in a relay race

chiplover

SO:
If someone has broken contract agreement by parking on someone else's land, (and I'd be annoyed if someone parked for 6 hours on my drive), even if the car did break down; Mr. Devil's advocate may ask: 'Shouldn't we all just pay up?'

Once, there was a chipshop and it's owners were sick and tired of people parking in their customer car park, and they were losing business. So they got a private company to help them enforce parking.

I got caught parking there years ago when I was actually shopping somewhere else. Under the old rules I sent the parking company a cease and desist and they dropped it. Who's wrong here?

All the efforts we go to to avoid paying up, if they've got clear signs and someone leaves a car there anyway (even if it's broken down), and the supreme court
say these charges are lawful, have they not just got us bang to rights?

Umkomaas

If someone has broken contract agreement by parking on someone else's land, (and I'd be annoyed if someone parked for 6 hours on my drive)

You’re offering no one a contract to park on your drive, and if someone did park there, you can go through the process of having it removed. Don’t conflate private land, as in your home space, and private land as in a car park being offered to people to park their cars, even though some people abuse this offer.

We never condone parking which contravenes the wishes of the landowner. What we fight against is unfair parking charges levied by private companies at eye-watering levels for very minor infringements, or often for no infringement whatsoever. Anything wrong with that?

if they've got clear signs and someone leaves a car there anyway (even if it's broken down), and the supreme court
say these charges are lawful, have they not just got us bang to rights?

That’s a very simplistic analysis of what the Supreme Court said in the Beavis case. Suggest you have a more thorough reading of the Judgment. You seem to have a similar understanding to most PPCs.

Do you know what constitutes ‘clear signs’?

So you would argue that a broken down vehicle would be a legitimate target and the keeper would need to pay £100? Wow!

System

NGPM are known to lease car parks and then issue tickets. So Manager is likely to be telling the truth.

chiplover

Umkomaas wrote: »

Do you know what constitutes ‘clear signs’?

No. WHen I visited the site a few days ago, the signs were BRAND new and abundantly clear. However, we can't be 100% sure they were there when the my vehicle was there.

Umkomaas wrote: »

So you would argue that a broken down vehicle would be a legitimate target and the keeper would need to pay £100? Wow!

Mmm that does get my anger juices flowing now you say it like that; nothing could've been done in that situation, and frankly I am shocked with £100. OK Umkomaas, I've read your quote in the NEwbies thread saying that the worst case scenario is that I am forced to pay up with 100 costs on top. That still stand? If so, even though I can't carry anger around for long periods of time, I might as well try and fight it.

That first letter draft letter in the newbie thread; can I change it? I feel that much of it does not apply to me. (e.g the bit about unclear parking. Their signs are abundantly clear). Perhaps if I just ask for ALL the photos I may be able to see when they were put up.

Once again, thank you for reading and responding. I have read as much as I can understand so far, but I'm guessing cut n pasting the newbie response and sending it to the parking company is standard starting procedure?

KeithP

chiplover wrote: »

That first letter draft letter in the newbie thread; can I change it? I feel that much of it does not apply to me. (e.g the bit about unclear parking. Their signs are abundantly clear).

It really doesn't matter what you say in an initial appeal to an IPC company.

chiplover wrote: »

Once again, thank you for reading and responding. I have read as much as I can understand so far, but I'm guessing cut n pasting the newbie response and sending it to the parking company is standard starting procedure?

Yes.

Umkomaas

Tamper with the template appeal at your own peril. It has been carefully crafted to ensure naive posters don’t blow off some of their toes. Leave the signage point in, do not remove - they, not you, have to prove the signage is clear and meets requirements. Don’t (even inadvertently) do their job for them.

I note in ‘defending’ their signage you don’t make any reference to your analysis and assessment of it in the context of IPC Code of Practice requirements, nor in the context of the assessment of the Supreme Court of ParkingEye’s ‘clear signage’ in the Beavis case.

‘Clear signage’ doesn’t mean ‘new and shiny’. The signage is the contract that the PPC is insisting binds you.

Nothing you add to the initial appeal will get this cancelled, nor any further appeal to the IAS, as the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #3 will tell you. You’re in this for the long run unless you can get a landowner cancellation, or you pay up (the forum doesn’t recommend doing that unless and until a Judge tells you to do so).

chiplover

Final question before I start this thing (of which I am very nervous):
BEcause I've been umming and ah-ing for a while now it's a month since I received the request for payment from this company. It's too late to use THEIR appeals process now? (14 days) Can I just send a (MSE approved) email to them anyway to get the ball rolling or have I !!!!!!ed things up completely?

Thank you all once again

The_Deep

I have read of several cases of "broken down" which the PPC has been foolish enough to take to court where the judge has found for the motorist.

No matter how new the sign is that does not make it legitimate, read this

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/motorist-wins-18-month-ticket-battle-870812

Also read what the Consumer Rights Act says about unfair terms in consumer contracts. This PCN seems to be a penalty for breaking down, is that not unfair?

System

If your car wa "broken down", a common occurrence with both private and local authority tickets, the simple approach is to write to the operator (with proof of posting) and give them the details.

However your definition of "broken down" must be a genuine one and be supported with evidence of the type of issue. It's called "frustration of contract"

Similarly as "broken down" cars are a common feature on car parks the signs there must have some sort of instruction on how a motorist should deal with this common eventuality. This is often a "help" line which the unfortunate driver can call to let the operator know.

So what was the problem with the car and what did the signs say and what did you do about informing the operator about your problem?