Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

mayonnaise

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Well, obviously.

As do those who voted remain.

Glad we agree that the only political imperative is to leave the EU.

westernpromise

I have to say leaving the EU increasingly resembles the Iraq War, where all the planning was about the initial victory and nothing was in place for the aftermath.

At a guess this whole business will still be causing ructions 15 years later, like the Iraq War is 15 years later. Rejoining won't even be an option because it would entail no rebates and euro membership, neither of which has ever been supported by the Great British Voter before and never will be.

Graham_Devon

westernpromise wrote: »

I have to say leaving the EU increasingly resembles the Iraq War, where all the planning was about the initial victory and nothing was in place for the aftermath.

At a guess this whole business will still be causing ructions 15 years later, like the Iraq War is 15 years later. Rejoining won't even be an option because it would entail no rebates and euro membership, neither of which has ever been supported by the Great British Voter before and never will be.

In all honesty, I doubt rejoining in 15 years will be an option for the reason that the EU likely won't exist in it's current form.

Will have to wait 15 years to find out though!

As for planning, the government didn't have any plans as they didn't believe people would vote for leave. Hence the political eruptions that happened the day after.

The MPs voting to leave didn't have any leverage in government plans at the time.

Even at the point of counting the votes on the BBC overnight, MPs on the remain side said there were no plans on how to leave as they won't be required. 5 hours later.....

The whoe referendum was a political plot gone wrong. The only aim was for the tory party to take back voters from UKIP. It worked, they got the voters back. However, they also got an answer they didn't quite expect.

Herzlos

The EU will still exist, and we'll take the no-rebates and Euro if it gives us a better deal that we have at the time we try to rejoin.


If Brexit is as bad as the predictions claim, then re-joining will be a no brainer. Espectially once most of the Brexiteers realise that Brexit didn't meet their expectations or solve any of their problems.

westernpromise

Herzlos wrote: »

If Brexit is as bad as the predictions claim

It won't be because the predictions are, largely, lies.

Remainers and Leavers both think the other lied and continues to lie, and both are broadly right. There seems no reason why Leavers of today would assume a Rejoin campaign in 2031 will be honest. Any such campaign will be the same as 2016, with the balance of doom-mongering reversed: Stay Out will be arguing we'll be doomed if we Rejoin and Rejoin will be arguing we'll be doomed if we Stay Out.

What a 2031 Rejoin referendum would at least reflect is what we would have remained in. My issue with Remain was the unanswered, "Remain in what?" For Remain to address this was to lie, because UK Remainers don't get to decide what the EU becomes, but by 2031 we'll know.

Arklight

Corbyn throw his weight behind the reunification of Ireland:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-ireland-reunification-north-border-belfast-visit-labour-good-friday-agreement-a8366211.html

Pressed on Mr Corbyn!!!8217;s opinions on reunification, his official spokesman said: !!!8220;Over the years he has made his position clear that the majority of those people across the whole island of Ireland wanted to see that outcome, a united Ireland.

Finally someone talking sense on this issue. There is no conceivable way post Brexit that the UK can cling on to its last and most calamitous colonial outpost, and provide the hard border with the EU that the Brexiteers want.

There can then be an actual border, but it will be the Irish Sea.

Arklight

Graham_Devon wrote: »

In all honesty, I doubt rejoining in 15 years will be an option for the reason that the EU likely won't exist in it's current form.

Will have to wait 15 years to find out though!

As for planning, the government didn't have any plans as they didn't believe people would vote for leave. Hence the political eruptions that happened the day after.

The MPs voting to leave didn't have any leverage in government plans at the time.

Even at the point of counting the votes on the BBC overnight, MPs on the remain side said there were no plans on how to leave as they won't be required. 5 hours later.....

The whoe referendum was a political plot gone wrong. The only aim was for the tory party to take back voters from UKIP. It worked, they got the voters back. However, they also got an answer they didn't quite expect.

No it won’t exists in its current form. It will be a much closer union of federalised states moving towards common taxation with a rapidly developing military and muscular foreign policy.

Mostly thanks to Brexit.

Great job Brexiteers, great job.

Herzlos

westernpromise wrote: »

It won't be because the predictions are, largely, lies.

Even the predictions coming out of the Department for Leaving the EU? I.e. the one government team who has to try and make this turd sandwich look appealing?


Will the 2031 campaign be honest? Who knows. Will it be as late as 2031? I honestly doubt it. People will be campaigning to rejoin from April 2019.

Graham_Devon

Arklight wrote: »

No it won!!!8217;t exists in its current form. It will be a much closer union of federalised states moving towards common taxation with a rapidly developing military and muscular foreign policy.

Mostly thanks to Brexit.

Great job Brexiteers, great job.

How can you hold the UK responsible for what the EU do once we have left? What you have described is already starting to happen and that had started before we voted. Many of us were talking about the EU army and posting references to it in 2015. You'll find Hamish and myself arguing over it's existence. Now, 3 years later, there are full blown plans and talks about the EU army.

Is there anything that you won't pin the blame for on those who voted leave?

Arklight

westernpromise wrote: »

It won't be because the predictions are, largely, lies.

Remainers and Leavers both think the other lied and continues to lie, and both are broadly right. There seems no reason why Leavers of today would assume a Rejoin campaign in 2031 will be honest. Any such campaign will be the same as 2016, with the balance of doom-mongering reversed: Stay Out will be arguing we'll be doomed if we Rejoin and Rejoin will be arguing we'll be doomed if we Stay Out.

What a 2031 Rejoin referendum would at least reflect is what we would have remained in. My issue with Remain was the unanswered, "Remain in what?" For Remain to address this was to lie, because UK Remainers don't get to decide what the EU becomes, but by 2031 we'll know.

They don’t now, thanks to Brexit.

Thie axiom that the UK is some poor helpless member of Europe that was dragged in kicking and screaming is absurd. The UK has been on the winning side of 98% of the bills and policies we have voted on.