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Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5
Comments
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Even the ones with careers here, mortgages, have British partners, British kids, speak better English than we do?
Surely you must be able to acknowledge that after some time, these migrants are part of our community.
Nothing to do with loyalty whatsoever then.
You do these things for self interest. If you have shown a propensity to move to country X for economic reasons, you could just as easily move to country Y later.0 -
How are the Labour antisemitism enquiries coming along?
Many enquiries have shown it to be no more anti-semetic than any other group.Nothing to do with loyalty whatsoever then.
You do these things for self interest. If you have shown a propensity to move to country X for economic reasons, you could just as easily move to country Y later.
I'm completely lost. What makes one loyal then? I'm born here but I don't think I'm loyal. What does it matter?
Plus you're assuming that those foreigners moved here for economic reasons and will move again at the drop of the hat. Many didn't move here for economic reasons, and settled down, others moved for economic reasons and settled down.
Why do you think someone with a British mortgage, British wife & kids and a long term job will just up sticks and move their countries life into the EU any more than I would?
If you're talking about the demonized casual workers who rent 10 to a room for a couple of years and move home, then sure. But not all foreign workers are in that category. Far more than you'd think have deep roots here and are at least as "loyal" as anyone born here.0 -
Yes I would consider a practicing Muslim to be an outsider just as a practicing Muslim would consider non practicing Muslims outsiders. At best the two can get along but they are clearly separate and distinct and the Muslims more than anyone else want to keep it that way.
They have different religious and to an extent cultural views but I don't see how that prevents them integrating. Lots of Muslims do all the things we view as British, except for getting drunk and causing a scene outside kebab shops.
You can work alongside them without really being aware that they are different, except for things like Ramadan where they need some allowances for dawn/dusk meal times.
I say this as someone who stayed in a mostly-Muslim area during university (I really miss all the shops), had a Muslim boss and co-workers and went on regular visits to another university town that's mostly Muslim. They dress different and some of them talk a language I don't understand, but I don't really see them as really that different from, say, the Welsh, so also talk a language I don't understand.0 -
They have different religious and to an extent cultural views but I don't see how that prevents them integrating. Lots of Muslims do all the things we view as British, except for getting drunk and causing a scene outside kebab shops.
You can work alongside them without really being aware that they are different, except for things like Ramadan where they need some allowances for dawn/dusk meal times.
They pose no threat at the moment but with their numbers growing they could pose a huge threat to you and your way of life. Like I say my parents and grand parents had to pretend to be practicing Muslims just to get by. Talking about Ramadan try eating in public as a national on Ramadan in a Muslim country see what happens to you. If your lucky you might get a beating by the local low life for not being a good Muslim, if you are unlucky you will end up losing your job on some !!!!!!!! pretense
You must distinguish the people from the faith. The people are no better or worse than anyone else. The faith and the structures built around it are horrible and make of otherwise normal people very crappy people.0 -
I say this as someone who stayed in a mostly-Muslim area during university (I really miss all the shops), had a Muslim boss and co-workers and went on regular visits to another university town that's mostly Muslim. They dress different and some of them talk a language I don't understand, but I don't really see them as really that different from, say, the Welsh, so also talk a language I don't understand.
The welsh have no ambition of control or power and even if they did it would not be for religious purposes
Maybe Muslims mostly dont either. But the mosques and imams do
You are also blind to the more irrational of them and their behaviors. I have a friend who went to some Muslim festival (or whatever they are called) last year where they whip themselves to the point of drawing blood. Medieval illogical stupid practices that should long have been given up. By the way I dont think this is most of them I think he is some sub group or something as even the other Muslims I know were very disapproving of his actions. Sure it doesn't bother me or you they are not whipping us they are only whipping themselves but ignorance begets ignorance. Just like this guy was indoctrinated by his parents he too will teach his own British born kids that it is what is normal and good
Oh and again I dont blame him, if I lived his life I would be the one whipping myself thinking I am doing gods work and keeping ties to my tribe. Its all he knows. There is a very small chance for him to grow out of it as it will likely mean distancing himself from his current tribe and in such tribes often there is no scope for leeway or divergence.0 -
I have a French friend. She's lived here for 15 years, had two children here, has a partner, has never been out of work for a day. She speaks better English than most of the wall of gammon that would like her deported.
She is REALLY upset by Brexit, she always felt at home in England but feels vulnerable here now. Because citizenship goes through the mother she had to apply for naturalisation for both of her kids who were born here, and now has to pay a small fortune and pass an exam for herself, otherwise she's worried she'll be deported when the Brexit Reich take over next year.
She has had NOTHING remotely supportive or reassuring about her future from this utter shower of a government. Not one word as to why she'd keep investing her time and skills into the UK. Her employer have promised they'll sponsor a visa for her if it comes to that but they are as in the dark as everyone else.
Brexiteers can stick their Brexit where the sun doesn't shine.
Why are remainers more concerned about the rights of EU citizens living in the UK than they are about UK citizens living in the EU? Sajid Javid wrote to Guy Verhofstadt last week seeking clarification about this matter but as usual, got the brush off.
The thing is that people like you couldn't care less about such people. You're just happy promoting your anti-UK agenda.0 -
I thought Barnier was keen to guarantee the rights of UK citizens in the EU. The hostility only seems to come from Mays side who actually called Eu citizens working in the UK "bargaining chips" and is responsible for the "hostile environment" for migrants.
I'll be honest, I know a lot more Europeans working in the UK than I know Brits working in the EU. But only one side has been hostile, so I don't think British expats are concerned.
Why's he being anti-UK? This comes up often enough that pointing out problems makes someone not patriotic enough.The welsh have no ambition of control or power and even if they did it would not be for religious purposes
Maybe Muslims mostly dont either. But the mosques and imams do
You are also blind to the more irrational of them and their behaviors. I have a friend who went to some Muslim festival (or whatever they are called) last year where they whip themselves to the point of drawing blood. Medieval illogical stupid practices that should long have been given up. By the way I dont think this is most of them I think he is some sub group or something as even the other Muslims I know were very disapproving of his actions. Sure it doesn't bother me or you they are not whipping us they are only whipping themselves but ignorance begets ignorance. Just like this guy was indoctrinated by his parents he too will teach his own British born kids that it is what is normal and good
Oh and again I dont blame him, if I lived his life I would be the one whipping myself thinking I am doing gods work and keeping ties to my tribe. Its all he knows. There is a very small chance for him to grow out of it as it will likely mean distancing himself from his current tribe and in such tribes often there is no scope for leeway or divergence.
You can replace most of that with Christian equivalents and get the same meaning. Do Christians also fail to integrate in the UK?0 -
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You can replace most of that with Christian equivalents and get the same meaning. Do Christians also fail to integrate in the UK?
Whatever this country is it has managed to set up a system which is quite fair and good and stable. You don't run for your life from the local thugs because you drank some water on Easter. You dont lose your job because your boss or employer is a religious zealot and you are not. You are not denied scientific education on the basis some pastor decides it worthless. We don't have the state training and paying for religious leaders to preach. We dont have the state paying for preachers to go to other nations and preach. We dont have ministers beating kids for using their left hand to write with. We dont have three year old kids in churches reciting the bible while rocking back and forth. We have separation of church and state. People are free to leave the religion with little to no consequences.
While Christianity or whatever this hybrid of non believers and part time Christians is, while it might not be perfect it is objectively more free and fair than all Islamic states.0
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