Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

buglawton

Arklight wrote: »

I’d rather have a Labour Brexit than a Tory Remain. The City would rather have Tory anything forever than a Labour government for one term.

I don’t think the Labour Party in general naturally looks for the approval of bankers to determine whether it’s doing okay...

Unless maybe their leaders name is Gordon

Moby

Arklight wrote: »

I!!!8217;d rather have a Labour Brexit than a Tory Remain. The City would rather have Tory anything forever than a Labour government for one term.

It always amazes me how people with relatively so little themselves defend a system loaded against them. Unfettered capitalism means that the debts you owe ensure your subservience and compliance. People with mortgages to pay are rarely radical socialists. The tories and their city friends know this. That's why they can ride rough shod over us. They fool you into believing that living the dream of 'ownership' in your three bedroom semi in Milton Keynes makes you a player. The true power and decision-making lies elsewhere of course but you're nicely distracted from caring about that by the 25 year term mortgage and don't forget you also have to bail out your masters when their greed and corruption results in chaos. Meanwhile the NHS etc is going to hell in a handcart. Yep an English mans home is his castle and that's why he's also a serf with bad teeth and a lifespan dependent on a postcode lottery!

Tromking

Arklight wrote: »

The existence of Gibraltar is an affront to the red blooded Spaniard. In fact he looks to that accursed rock and the humiliation of the Treaty of Utrecht as a catalyst of unending resentment.

As would you if Spain had annexed Hayling Island, put a giant military base on it, covered it in monkeys, and stopped you sailing to Calais.

That’s an interesting statement of the obvious but to reiterate my question, in what way will the U.K. kow-tow to the EU when it comes to Gibraltar and the Brexit negotiations?

gfplux

When Britain leaves the EU at the end of 2020 no one wants project fear to be right.
https://infacts.org/5-reasons-economists-brexit-warnings-werent-wrong/

Number one of five reasons things are not as bad as forecast.

QUOTE
1. We havent left yet

Whats more, de facto membership albeit without participating in decisions from next March is likely to continue through a 21-month transition period at least. The whole point of the transition is to cushion the blow of Brexit, so its not surprising there hasnt been a bit hit yet. This stopgap period was never factored into forecasts from either side of the debate.
END QUOTE

Moby

Tromking wrote: »

That!!!8217;s an interesting statement of the obvious but to reiterate my question, in what way will the U.K. kow-tow to the EU when it comes to Gibraltar and the Brexit negotiations?

I think when you are going through a huge foreign policy crisis the last thing you worry about are the interests of Gibraltar. The UK needs its traditional allies now more than ever......but Trump was staying quiet when asked about Russia's behaviour and France, Germany etc aren't exactly on our side at present. Putin's timing is perfect. He can smell weakness and we all know why! Brexit has weakened us in the eyes of the world.

Add the Irish border question and a pro remain Scotland to the mix and you can see sooner or later the price we will pay for Brexit will be the fragmentation of the union.......as well as everything else of course.

Arklight

Moby wrote: »

It always amazes me how people with relatively so little themselves defend a system loaded against them. Unfettered capitalism means that the debts you owe ensure your subservience and compliance. People with mortgages to pay are rarely radical socialists. The tories and their city friends know this. That's why they can ride rough shod over us. They fool you into believing that living the dream of 'ownership' in your three bedroom semi in Milton Keynes makes you a player. The true power and decision-making lies elsewhere of course but you're nicely distracted from caring about that by the 25 year term mortgage and don't forget you also have to bail out your masters when their greed and corruption results in chaos. Meanwhile the NHS etc is going to hell in a handcart. Yep an English mans home is his castle and that's why he's also a serf with bad teeth and a lifespan dependent on a postcode lottery!

It!!!8217;s also why the more well educated people are the less likely they are to vote for the Right.

There was a multi page thread on here which boiled down to half a dozen furious right wing men blaming all the ills on the world on the fact they think young people are over educated. It!!!8217;s not the education they are threatened by rather than the thought that people who pop out of universities are unlikely to agree with their politics.

That!!!8217;s what the Right is, fear. Fear of foreigners, fear of imaginary communists, fear of other people, fear that someone is going to reach into their pocket.

Science have even proved it.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/mind-in-the-machine/201612/fear-and-anxiety-drive-conservatives-political-attitudes

Arklight

cogito wrote: »

Pitiful. Sapphire doesn't need to let anything go. It was a simple statement of fact.

The only reason there is a generational divide on Brexit is that nobody under 45 has any experience of life outside the EU.

I have plenty of experience of life outside the EU thank you. You!!!8217;re better off in.

If you can!!!8217;t understand why younger people didn!!!8217;t vote Leave based on what happened in the middle of the last century then there isn!!!8217;t much to talk about.

Tromking

Moby wrote: »

I think when you are going through a huge foreign policy crisis the last thing you worry about are the interests of Gibraltar. The UK needs its traditional allies now more than ever......but Trump was staying quiet when asked about Russia's behaviour and France, Germany etc aren't exactly on our side at present. Putin's timing is perfect. He can smell weakness and we all know why!

Add the Irish border question and a pro remain Scotland to the mix and you can see sooner or later the price we will pay for Brexit will be the fragmentation of the union.......as well as everything else of course.

Britain’s so callled ‘Brexit weakness’ doesn’t explain the Litvenyenko (sic!) murder or the alleged 13 other state sponsored murders on British soil, all or most I think predate our vote to leave the EU.
Trump’s relationship with Putin is subject to close scrutiny at the moment, I’m not sure the US’s current stance is an indicator of the U.K ‘s diminishing influence.
When mainland Europe relies on Gazprom for 40% of its gas, I’m guessing any support for the U.K. has to be tempered by necessity.
The ‘Britain is going to hell in a handcart’ argument is not particularly accurate in my opinion, it’s a useful narrative if you regret the Brexit vote however.

mrginge

Arklight wrote: »

It!!!8217;s also why the more well educated people are the less likely they are to vote for the Right.

This obviously explains the correlation between increasing numbers of university graduates and the increasing number of left wing governments.

Erm...

ukcarper

Moby wrote: »

It always amazes me how people with relatively so little themselves defend a system loaded against them. Unfettered capitalism means that the debts you owe ensure your subservience and compliance. People with mortgages to pay are rarely radical socialists. The tories and their city friends know this. That's why they can ride rough shod over us. They fool you into believing that living the dream of 'ownership' in your three bedroom semi in Milton Keynes makes you a player. The true power and decision-making lies elsewhere of course but you're nicely distracted from caring about that by the 25 year term mortgage and don't forget you also have to bail out your masters when their greed and corruption results in chaos. Meanwhile the NHS etc is going to hell in a handcart. Yep an English mans home is his castle and that's why he's also a serf with bad teeth and a lifespan dependent on a postcode lottery!

Perhaps it is because radical socialism does not work and a socialist government would wreck the country.