Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

Filo25

ukcarper wrote: »

I don!!!8217;t think it would be a easy job for anybody bearing in mind you have to respect the referendum result. I certainly dont see Corbyn doing any better.

Nor do I if he was dealing with this parliamentary arithmetic.

Corbyn isn't really interested in helping deliver anything on this issue he just wants to make the Tories look bad.

The problem I have with "respecting the referendum result" as a mantra, is that people were promised a lot of undeliverable and contradictory stuff during the referendum, Brexiters are right that many who voted leave undoubtedly expect to leave the EU, control our borders, leave the single market, the customs union and the jurisdiction of the ECJ, the problem is that they also expect to get the same economic benefits from the EU that they had previously, it isn't going to happen.

ukcarper

Filo25 wrote: »

Nor do I if he was dealing with this parliamentary arithmetic.

Corbyn isn't really interested in helping deliver anything on this issue he just wants to make the Tories look bad.

The problem I have with "respecting the referendum result" as a mantra, is that people were promised a lot of undeliverable and contradictory stuff during the referendum, Brexiters are right that many who voted leave undoubtedly expect to leave the EU, control our borders, leave the single market, the customs union and the jurisdiction of the ECJ, the problem is that they also expect to get the same economic benefits from the EU that they had previously, it isn't going to happen.

The problem is we are committed to leave now and you cant turn the clock back. Im not sure people did expect to to get the same economic benefits they just dont think it will be as bad as predictions which is probably true.

Filo25

ukcarper wrote: »

The problem is we are committed to leave now and you cant turn the clock back. Im not sure people did expect to to get the same economic benefits they just dont think it will be as bad as predictions which is probably true.

Look back here during the referendum, the vocal leavers were all telling us the EU would be on their knees to us to give us a great trade deal as they needed us more than we needed them, plenty of Leave campaigners said much the same thing.

People on all sides are going to be somewhat "annoyed" whatever happens.

Thrugelmir

Filo25 wrote: »

The sad fact is we still haven't gotten close enough to the EU position to even begin a meaningful negotiation,

When you divorce/separate from your long term partner. You don't expect them to demand a set of keys to your front door and ongoing use of your car as part of the agreement.

Thrugelmir

Filo25 wrote: »

Look back here during the referendum, the vocal leavers were all telling us the EU would be on their knees to us to give us a great trade deal as they needed us more than we needed them, plenty of Leave campaigners said much the same thing.

Business will find their own solution. Business has no borders. Where profit is all that matters. Such as today's news demonstrates. Expect more of the same, both ways.

Siemens train factory plant planned in Goole

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-43245227

ukcarper

Filo25 wrote: »

Look back here during the referendum, the vocal leavers were all telling us the EU would be on their knees to us to give us a great trade deal as they needed us more than we needed them, plenty of Leave campaigners said much the same thing.

People on all sides are going to be somewhat "annoyed" whatever happens.

Some leavers were saying that but it is true that a good deal would benefit the EU as well as us.

I agree some people on both sides are going to be annoyed no matter what, the best we can hope for is that a reasonable deal can be reached that the majority can accept. I don’t see the point in going over the same arguments that were used in referendum campaign.

Thrugelmir

ilovehouses wrote: »

Leaving the EU is nothing like that.

Ok for you, plain English. So you consider the EU's position (or should I say the EU27 member states that remain) to have no caveats or representations or preconditions attached at all to their negotiating position on any aspect of the agreement.

Filo25

In terms of the underlying basis for the relationship, what is there actually to negotiate anyway, the base templates are already there.

Why do people think the UK deserves something radically better than the EU has been willing to offer to any other trading partner.

What are the EU doing here that is so unreasonable? If we don't want ECJ jurisdiction, CU (or something very similar) or SM, then a Canada style deal would be entirely consistent with how they have negotiated with other nations, it wouldn't be a case of punishment, it would actually be as good a deal as they had offered anyone else in the same position.

If we want more then we need to offer more, that is pretty much how negotiation usually works. Equally we won't be offered the same benefits that say the Swiss are as we won't be compromising as much as they are on other areas.

Maybe we are slowly starting to move towards accepting that now, and can have a more realistic view of what might be possible, so that we can get down to more meaningful detailed negotiations, where maybe we can tweak things slightly to our advantage.

Still not sure how the Irish border issue gets solved though.

mrginge

BobQ wrote: »

Some fine words which she could have said a year ago. A U turn of sorts but the question remains can this cherry picking charter be achieved in practice.

If the EU wants to solve the British problem this is an olive branch, but if the EU stick to their guns then nothing will have changed.

Sounds like nothing has changed.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/02/theresa-mays-brexit-vision-dismissed-as-unrealistic-in-brussels

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

mrginge wrote: »

Sounds like nothing has changed.

Theresa May has, for the first time, ruled out a Canada style FTA or WTO options. That is a change.

So that only leaves options that involve staying much closer to and more involved with the EU than the hard Brexiteers want.

I personally don't think cherry-picking to this extent is an option that will be accepted, so we'll likely end up with a Switzerland type deal, but lets see.