Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

ukcarper

Herzlos wrote: »

I paid for seven. No-one cares about your internet willy-waving.


"almost".

You are so blinkered it’s untrue. U.K. gdp is still 3rd highest in EU.

Thrugelmir

Herzlos wrote: »

Maybe we're not the poor man of Europe yet, but we're heading in that direction.

Then why are the EU so keen to punish us. What are they frightened of. That the UK is going demonstrate that life is better outside. Increasingly the veneer is peeling off the EU project. The inner circle is showing just political they are. How important their project is. With an attitude of don't care less about the average working person.

Herzlos

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Then why are the EU so keen to punish us.

They aren't in any way keen to punish us. What we're asking for is punishment enough, and you can't blame the EU for that.

Not giving us everything we want, no matter how contradictory, is not punishment.

We also need to accept that once we're outside the EU, it has no obligation to care about our wellbeing. Just as we wanted, so again we can't complain about that.

Or do you have any evidence that the EU is actively trying to punish us beyond giving us what we apparently want?

tracey3596

Herzlos wrote: »

They aren't in any way keen to punish us. What we're asking for is punishment enough, and you can't blame the EU for that.

Not giving us everything we want, no matter how contradictory, is not punishment.

We also need to accept that once we're outside the EU, it has no obligation to care about our wellbeing. Just as we wanted, so again we can't complain about that.

Or do you have any evidence that the EU is actively trying to punish us beyond giving us what we apparently want?

Yes but I strongly suspect that you will ignore it, just as you ignore pretty much everything else that doesn't suit your stated opinions.
So I will post only one, from today - but TBH there's loads.

"Even Lib Dems disapprove of negotiator’s plan to let EU punish UK during transition period"

The proposal for special rules to punish the UK for flouting EU law during the 21-month period was predictably deemed “unacceptable” by hardliners such as Jacob Rees-Mogg, who already regard the notion of regulation without representation as akin to “vassal state” status.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/07/uk-politicians-briefly-unite-against-michel-barnier-brexit-demands

Thrugelmir

Herzlos wrote: »

They aren't in any way keen to punish us. What we're asking for is punishment enough,and you can't blame the EU for that.

Not giving us everything we want, no matter how contradictory, is not punishment.

We also need to accept that once we're outside the EU, it has no obligation to care about our wellbeing. Just as we wanted, so again we can't complain about that.

Or do you have any evidence that the EU is actively trying to punish us beyond giving us what we apparently want?

The UK hasn't asked. The UK is being told. You haven't addressed my point at all. As to why the EU is becoming hard line and self protectionist.

Herzlos

tracey3596 wrote: »

Yes but I strongly suspect that you will ignore it, just as you ignore pretty much everything else that doesn't suit your stated opinions.
So I will post only one, from today - but TBH there's loads.

"Even Lib Dems disapprove of negotiator’s plan to let EU punish UK during transition period"


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/07/uk-politicians-briefly-unite-against-michel-barnier-brexit-demands

Your own quote proves you wrong. The punishment would be for violating eu rules, not for Brexit.

Herzlos

Thrugelmir wrote: »

The UK hasn't asked. The UK is being told. You haven't addressed my point at all. As to why the EU is becoming hard line and self protectionist.

The UK hasn't asked because it doesn't know what it wants. The eu has no obligation to be nice to us; they have us over a barrel.
Taking the upper hand in negotiations isn't hard line or self protectionist, at least I don't think so.

It's becoming a running joke that the UK won't tell the eu what it wants, with even Merkel getting in on the act

BobQ

westernpromise wrote: »

Your every post is like a blast of stale air from the 1930s.

You owe literally everything to private companies, the wealth they generate and the taxes they pay. Imagine if they hated you and this country like you do. We'd be North Korea in an instant.

Meanwhile you take out and put nothing in and the more you're given for nothing the more you whine for and feel entitled to. Snivelling after other people's money all the time is shameful, greedy and undignified.

Last year I paid for six nurses. Can you say the same? Thought not.

Not sure how this diatribe arises from Moby's post but I can vaguely see the logic. "Moby .... mentions public sector..... irrational rage..... anti public sector bile required......."


Nobody denies the private sector produces goods and services. Our problem is that our national productivity is much lower than our competitors. But it is not for the private sector alone to decide how many public services we should have. That is a choice for the whole electorate and demonising those who choose to do the jobs that we as a society decide we need to deliver those public services is not helpful.

Those of us in the private sector have as much say as anyone else on the role of the public sector so get used to that concept.

The private sector is not the perfect machine you pretend. The banks delivered us the worst recession in living memory. Privatisation has changed the railways but they have become just as expensive except now we have less subsidises and higher fares. The problem is not the public sector it is a lack of investment in manufacturing and the low wage service economy that many work in.

If you feel better making personal attacks on Moby or bragging about how many nurses your pay for you are very sad. How did you arrive at 6 nurses? Why not 60?

BobQ

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Then why are the EU so keen to punish us. What are they frightened of. That the UK is going demonstrate that life is better outside. Increasingly the veneer is peeling off the EU project. The inner circle is showing just political they are. How important their project is. With an attitude of don't care less about the average working person.

To discourage the others.......unfortunately we will probably have to suffer in order that the others learn the lesson.

While I am less pessimistic about Brexit than I once was, I still cannot understand why so many people think that a lower standard of living is a price worth paying to address their particular problems

Herzlos

BobQ wrote: »

While I am less pessimistic about Brexit than I once was, I still cannot understand why so many people think that a lower standard of living is a price worth paying to address their particular problems

Assuming it even addresses their particular problems. Most of the complaints I'm aware of are actually down to UK government failings and not being in the EU.