Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

Tromking

phillw wrote: »

I thought leave voters were the ones with a negative view of british democratic institutions, at least they said they voted against the establishment.

You appear to have learnt very little so far, but you'll get your chance with the punishment brexit being orchestrated by May and Rees Mogg.

You shouldn’t confuse the individuals who populate our democratic institutions with the institutions themselves.
I don’t recognise the Remoaner narrative that says there is a soft, hard or even a punishment Brexit. I expect our elected representatives to carry out the instruction as expressed in the Brexit referendum. So far, they’ve done that dutifully.

Thrugelmir

Tromking wrote: »

This whole Brexit process has been highly enlightening for a Leave vote like me. I had no idea that millions of UK citizens had such a negative view of British democratic institutions and such a deep rooted admiration for the mainland European equivalents.

Perhaps symptomatic of a wider divide in Western culture.

Tromking

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Perhaps symptomatic of a wider divide in Western culture.

If they are true to their word, I have totally underestimated the amount of my fellow Brits who now view themselves as primarily European and perhaps more controversially and maybe just my perception, the number also who are willing to accept the democracy deficit that comes with EU membership.
Pragmatism over principle I call it.

Thrugelmir

Tromking wrote: »

If they are true to their word, I have totally underestimated the amount of my fellow Brits who now view themselves as primarily European and perhaps more controversially and maybe just my perception, the number also who are willing to accept the democracy deficit that comes with EU membership.
Pragmatism over principle I call it.

Exclude non natives , non residents (i.e Gibralter) , expats and SNP supporters from the numbers. You'll find the gap is wider in terms of discontent.

Like the rust belt of the USA. There's a native population that aren't benefiting. From the EU, globalisation, or the dominance of some US companies in certain market sectors.

All the while the UK is stil recovering from the GFC. Which cost everyone dearly.

Thrugelmir

gfplux wrote: »

In the absence of any news about the Brexit negotiations these pages are filled with news about the club we are leaving.
Do you miss the EU already?

Some interesting snippets I saw today.

The biggest impact of Brexit will not be new trade deals or deregulation, but a “good old-fashioned kick up the backside” of British business, according to Adam Marshall, director general of the British Chambers of Commerce. The “disruption and dynamic adjustment” caused by Brexit has meant business owners across the UK have “looked a bit harder at their operations”, Marshall states, with firms encouraged to “probe costs, refocus training and investment, and reassess customer and supplier relationships.

EU could force 37 new laws on UK

Leaked Whitehall analysis reveals Britain could be forced to accept nearly 40 EU directives during a two-year transition period after Brexit. It’s reported many of the directives are being opposed by Ministers, including the enforcement of ‘clearing houses’ for euros based in the City being moved to the continent. Another of the new directives could look to give European Supervisory Authorities increased budgets to oversee the UK’s financial services sector.

EU ‘risks global fallout’ from City deal delay

Andrew Bailey, the chief executive of the Financial Conduct Authority, has warned that the EU should stop prevaricating and enter talks on a financial services trade agreement, or face serious consequences for global markets. Mr Bailey said he did not believe Brussels’ belief that frictionless cross-border trade between banks after Brexit would be impossible to achieve. Bailey has said Europe could have more to lose than the UK if the country was to leave the EU with no deal, and that tens of trillions of pounds of contracts were at risk if negotiators did not give banks and other institutions enough time to secure interim arrangements for Brexit.

Moby

Tromking wrote: »

If they are true to their word, I have totally underestimated the amount of my fellow Brits who now view themselves as primarily European and perhaps more controversially and maybe just my perception, the number also who are willing to accept the democracy deficit that comes with EU membership.
Pragmatism over principle I call it.

Being European means far more to me than being British. I'm actually Welsh so have always been used to being opressed by the big neighbour;)

Arklight

Tromking wrote: »

If they are true to their word, I have totally underestimated the amount of my fellow Brits who now view themselves as primarily European and perhaps more controversially and maybe just my perception, the number also who are willing to accept the democracy deficit that comes with EU membership.
Pragmatism over principle I call it.

Democracy is what is happening. The issue you appear to be grappling with is that it didn!!!8217;t just stop the day after the referendum.

If you stepped from your echo chamber of red faced and angry from Worcestershires you would realise that most people accept that Brexit will happen, but reject the version that you want.

In 20 years half the people who voted Leave will be dead and we will most probably be back in.

westernpromise

Moby wrote: »

Being European means far more to me than being British. I'm actually Welsh

Explains everything.

gfplux

Tromking wrote: »

Putting the relative merits of the NHS and other mainland European healthcare systems aside, adopting the Luxembourger system would be seen by Brits as a seismic shift in the way healthcare provided is by the state. Nearly free at the point of access, is not free. What you describe is in effect an insurance style excess payment, that would be an anathema to most UK citizens. The conversation you say we need about how we afford the NHS is not about card machines at hospital receptions but how much GDP we choose to spend on health.

Having lived both systems making a small payment at point of delivery combined with making the patient aware of the !!!8220;true!!!8221; cost of the medicine or treatment should not be dismissed.
As a first step making the patient aware of the !!!8220;true!!!8221; cost will at least make people take services and medicines more seriously. It would also be a way of making that conversation happen. We all read the story!!!8217;s regularly about a particular cancer pill that costs £1000 a day but it!!!8217;s the more mundane things that is at the heart of everything.
Not turning up to an appointment for a trivial reason is just shocking and inexcusable.

gfplux

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Some interesting snippets I saw today.

Thank you.