Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

phillw

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

Have you got anything positive to say phillw?

Yes, I'm positive about a good many things. When there is merit. Give me something about brexit that is positive and not based on xenophobia and I'll sing it's praises.

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

Don't you understand - people voted to leave, they want out of the eu, I voted to remain (though I have since changed my mind). Personally, now that the eu have shown their true colours, I simply want out.

What do you mean "true colours"? Tell me something they have done wrong.

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

I certainly do not wish to stay in a customs union with a protectionist federal state.

The reasons people gave for voting to leave the "protectionist EU" was because it wasn't protecting us enough. You're either disingenuous or you haven't thought your argument through.

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

We are leaving.

Yes, we're storming off in a huff. Unfortunately we're doing it in that way where you storm out but forgot your keys and have to come back sheepishly.

BTW the language you use like "our" and "we're" goes back to the nazi playbook of creating division. You should avoid it at all costs because it distorts your perception of reality. It's the reason why leave chose to put "our NHS" on the side of a bus. As it's purely done to manipulate peoples thoughts, then as soon as I see it then I assume your argument has no merit. It's safer that way as I won't get pulled into your delusion.

Enterprise_1701C

phillw wrote: »

Yes, I'm positive about a good many things. When there is merit. Give me something about brexit that is positive and not based on xenophobia and I'll sing it's praises.

It gives us chance to trade with the rest of the world on OUR terms, we do not have to stick to the arrangements made with the eu. we can bring fields back into use that have been left to rot because of eu rules designed to favour French farmers, we can fish our own waters without legally having to allow the eu to have more of our fish (admittedly we will have to do battle with Spain because they will not think twice about fishing illegally in our waters, they have never believed in sticking to the rules, and strangely the eu have never done anything about it, in spite of the fact that they are overfishing our waters), I could go on but it would take too long, and you will probably see all this as negatives anyway.

What do you mean "true colours"? Tell me something they have done wrong.

I can't recall who it was, but one of the eu said after the Brexit vote that democracy should not be allowed. Also Jean-Claude Juncker has asked eu leaders not to hold referendums in case their people vote to leave. Apparently European Commission chief Jean Claude Juncker said it would be !!!8220;unwise!!!8221; for member states to give people a say as they could follow Britain!!!8217;s lead. Not the "states" part, as far as he is concerned they are no longer countries. As far as I am concerned, if that is in the public domain, what are they keeping to themselves.

Yes, we're storming off in a huff.

We have never wanted to be part of a federal eu, the common market was a brilliant idea, but the federal eu is just a way to take over the world, power is shared disproportionately and any power we have ever had has been gradually eroded over the years. There is one reason, one reason only, why they never wanted us to have a vote as the treaties gradually increased the power of the eu.

Just having a check up on some more information. It is pretty certain that by around 2020 ALL eu countries will be required to be in the euro. So if we were still in the eu we would have either had to join the euro or leave. Our opt out would have been irrelevant. I cannot see the euro being suitable for all countries within the eu, certainly not for the UK. There is a handful of countries that it is good for, especially Germany, it will destroy any other countries before the eu economy actually settles, but that is the idea after all. Destroy the economies of the countries within the euro and they will HAVE to agree to cease to be a country and become part of the eu as a state, the way the eu seems to consider member countries anyway.

tracey3596

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Never mind eh.

It's called "shooting yourself in the foot".
(The EU might well be stupid enough to do that. I'm not saying they aren't.)

Read:
How Brexit is set to hurt Europe's financial systems


https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/britain-europe-cost/


Punishing City of London will damage EU, says Luxembourg finance minister

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/10/23/punishing-city-london-will-damage-eu-says-luxembourg-finance/

https://www.eba.europa.eu/-/esas-highlight-main-risks-for-the-eu-financial-syst-2

Or if you'd prefer very recent try:
Brexit games risk EU's financial efficiency

https://www.ft.com/content/cb30cd2c-0a61-11e8-839d-41ca06376bf2


EU risks 'serious' impact on financial markets without trade deal, watchdog warns

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/02/05/eu-risks-serious-impact-financial-markets-without-trade-deal/




There you go.
Now try to argue that the EU aren't protectionist to the degree that they would rather self-harm than reach logical agreement.

wunferall

Thrugelmir wrote: »

No romance. Churchill wasn't the preferred option. Churchill became a hero. As it was his decisions that led to the evacuation of the British Army from Dunkirk. History could have been so very different.

Like May right for the time. When peacetime returns then their job is done.

Do give over, ALL movies are romanticized. That's why people go to watch them, otherwise (let's be honest) most of them would be somewhat akin to watching the grass grow.

For example, the Graudian says this about The Darkest Hour.

the most jarring misjudgment is an excruciating folly in which Churchill lumbers out of his car and on to the London underground, holding a mini-referendum among the commuters on whether to plead for peace or go to battle. It’s patronising, contrived and emits such a stench of artificiality that it makes your sinuses sting.

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/jan/14/darkest-hour-review-gary-oldman-kristin-scott-thomas-churchill

If that's not "romanticizing I don't know what is.
Not that I'm saying I wouldn't watch it mind; just that like nearly all movies you take what you see as a story and not as a snapshot of reality.

Otherwise I agree with what you say; history could indeed have been very different and May is right for this time.
She must be to make so many who are against Brexit bleat so loudly.

wunferall

A Scottish court rejected on Tuesday a legal attempt to ask the European Court of Justice (ECJ) to clarify whether Britain could unilaterally stop the Brexit process.

I am not satisfied that the application has a real prospect of success. Permission to proceed is refused,”

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-article50/court-rejects-legal-bid-to-show-britain-could-stop-brexit-idUKKBN1FQ1A2

The group which brought the case is, it says, going to appeal.
Since the group bringing the case are said to be lawyers themselves it strikes me that they're doing not much more than drumming up business for themselves.

wunferall

Is Gibraltar still another stumbling block for a Brexit deal?

Gibraltar will not be bullied into accepting joint sovereignty between the U.K. and Spain as a condition for being included in a Brexit transition period, the island territory’s deputy chief minister, Joseph Garcia, said.

https://www.politico.eu/article/gibraltar-spain-brexit-transition-no-blackmail/

No wonder even the odious Nick Clegg is now accepting that a so-called "soft Brexit" is out the window AND he now accepts too that Eurocrats have a "sneering disregard" for "the politics of identity and the politics of patriotism"
http://www.cityam.com/280136/nick-clegg-admits-soft-brexit-hopes-dead-but-urging-mps

fewgroats

How can soft Brexit be out the window if there is no hard border in Ireland, wunferall? The hard Brexiters have yet to take command in the Tory party, y'know. (Any day now, but still...)

Thrugelmir

wunferall wrote: »

Is Gibraltar still another stumbling block for a Brexit deal?

From the Spanish perspective safe to assume yes. Not that the Irish border issue has totally gone away.

phillw

wunferall wrote: »

AND he now accepts too that Eurocrats have a "sneering disregard" for "the politics of identity and the politics of patriotism"
http://www.cityam.com/280136/nick-clegg-admits-soft-brexit-hopes-dead-but-urging-mps

According to the link what he said wasn't quite what you say he said.

"a barely-concealed, almost sneering disregard"

However I do have a sneering disregard for patriotism, it's worthless and makes you do really really stupid things. I prefer doing the right thing for everyone and letting go of the xenophobia, it seems I'm in the minority.

tracey3596

The xenophobes are all in mainland EU.
Why are you not setting your sights on them?

Attacks on immigrants highlight rise of fascist groups in Italy

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/feb/06/attacks-on-immigrants-highlight-rise-of-fascist-groups-in-italy

That's from today.
Earlier reports from a few more EU countries here:

Germany has seen an increase in violence since it opened its doors to refugees... due to attacks on refugees

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/refugee-attacks-germany-ten-angela-merkel-hate-crime-a7600616.html

Attacks on refugee homes double in Austria as accommodation firebombed and sprayed with Nazi graffiti

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/refugee-crisis-austria-migrants-asylum-seekers-homes-attacks-firebombings-doubles-accomodation-a7661831.html

I note there's no similar comment upon the xenophobic refusal to accept refugees in much of Eastern EU members.
:whistle: