Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

Windofchange

Carl31 wrote: »

This "rise of the right" we are witnessing in Europe currently is not a good thing at all, its worrying if anything. Hopefully its more a protest against EU policy than an actual change in belief amongst people

This is a prime demonstration of how the press and associated news outlets have conditioned you and others to think. People voted for Trump, Brexit etc not because the whole world turned inherently racist overnight, but because enough people had had enough of a wide variety of things - immigration, no housing, NHS at breaking point etc.

The way the left has decided to try to regain power is to divide and conquer. Whilst politics has gone to the right, the media and culture has gone further left. What has more swing in most people's eyes - a speech by Theresa May, or their favourite pop star rambling about white supremacists? And so the momentum grows and we arrive at the place we are at now where everyone thinks the KKK are about to take power and the whole world is full of racist white middle aged men.

Antifa are a prime example of how messed up this has got. These are the people who instigate the violence at the May Day riots both in London and other cities around the world. They are basically the left's version of the EDL. Yet, because their supposed message is anti-fascism then they have to be righteous hey? Take a look on youtube what the supposed tolerant and peaceful left is like in America - search antifa Berkeley riots for a starter.

Mass immigration fuelled by the de-stabilisation of the middle east has turned the Western world into a melting pot, and there are many groups trying to take advantage of this for their own gain. Indigenous peoples in the UK, Austria etc saying that they want to maintain their culture and way of life is not racism or fascism, but the press will of course whip it into a frenzy to try and destabilise the right. Funny thing is, if you look around online for interviews with trump protesters etc, none of them can really cite what it is they are annoyed about, or what it is they want to change. Herd mentality and virtue signalling at its finest.

Tromking

Carl31 wrote: »

This "rise of the right" we are witnessing in Europe currently is not a good thing at all, its worrying if anything. Hopefully its more a protest against EU policy than an actual change in belief amongst people

Yet the Remainers who like to continually propagate the myth that the UK is unique on the European continent for being home to xenophobes and closet racists are strangely silent when confronted with the same issues on mainland Europe.
Anyone who know`s anything about Europe realises we are as nothing when compared to most other European nations problems with far right politics and nationalism generally.
The UK post Brexit will continue to be a beacon for core western civilised values.

Herzlos

I don't think Remain have been claiming the UK is the only place with an xenophobia problem. Just because others are doing it too doesn't mean it's not a terrible thing

Thrugelmir

Carl31 wrote: »

This "rise of the right" we are witnessing in Europe currently is not a good thing at all, its worrying if anything. Hopefully its more a protest against EU policy than an actual change in belief amongst people

Why is it worrying. Perhaps it will create the enviroment for change that is needed. One suspects many people don't wish to lose their national identity and culture to become "generic" Europeans. In the same way that globalisation has come to dominate what we buy,eat and where we shop etc.

Backbiter

Windofchange wrote: »

Funny thing is, if you look around online for interviews with trump protesters etc, none of them can really cite what it is they are annoyed about, or what it is they want to change. Herd mentality and virtue signalling at its finest.

What a ludicrous assertion. I don't think anti-Trump protesters have any difficulty stating what it is about the guy they don't like. It's not difficult.

BobQ

I sometimes hear people say that we have no obligation to pay anything when we leave. Is that argument sustainable?

Others accept we have obligations to pay for some things. So for example:

- that we must pay towards the pensions of EU employees who built up pension rights before the date we leave
- a share of the costs of relocating EU facilities in the UK to other EU27 countries
- a share of the costs of projects (such as road building) that the EU has agreed to build prior to serving Article 50.

Others suggest that we should counterbalance this with the right to benefit from the costs of projects we agreed to fund (ie that the EU should be obliged to contribute to building roads in the UK that were agreed before Article 50.

Others link any payments we make to the benefits that we will gain from them such as
- paying a share of the costs of EU research sponsorship if we continue to benefit from the existing arrangements

I would be interested in seeing some views on the subject of what we are obliged to pay, what it would be worthwhile agreeing to fund for mutual benefit, etc.

fatbeetle

Nothing at all, zilch.

Gorgeous_George

FWIW, I think we should pay towards pensions accrued to date but this should be paid as a lump sum rather than in smaller sums as the pensions become payable. I clean break is needed when we leave.

Other than that, I do not consider a divorce bill as being necessary. We have paid plenty already as net contributors to the EU.

GG

cogito

We should take over responsibility for pension payments to UK retirees. Responsibility for others belongs to the EU.

We should not have to pay the EU to relocate their agencies based in the UK. It is their decision to go.

We should not have to pay for projects that the EU have agreed to under reste a liquider.

Eric_the_half_a_bee

BobQ wrote: »

- that we must pay towards the pensions of EU employees who built up pension rights before the date we leave

This would be OK if the amounts are reduced to give us credit for the pension payments we have contributed to over the last 45 years which relate to pension rights built up before we joined the EU.