Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

Tromking

Donald Tusk warning that Poland could be next to leave. Highly unlikely in my non-expert opinion. Probably a quote from him designed to warn his fellow Poles of what is at stake. The EU has a new bad-boy to replace the U.K. it seems.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01/11/donald-tusk-warnspoland-could-hold-brexit-style-eu-referendum/

tracey3596

The EU isn't divided?
:rotfl:
So Poland is okay then, there's no furore from the EU about Polish forests or their judiciary?
No outcry with the Visegrad nations refusing to accept EU quotas for refugees?
No Spanish divisions with Catalonia?
There's not a growing divisions between the EU and Sweden or the EU and Denmark then?


Politically there are no divisions, which is why Germany has a stable government now? Ooops!
Like in the Netherlands where Mark Rutte is struggling with his coalition to keep populists at bay.
Or Austria.
Or Italy which looks like having populists in control soon despite them changing the law in an attempt to stop this possibility.

Regarding Brexit, the Irish and Danes aren't really telling the EU their concerns.
Deloitte haven't just released another report saying thousands of German jobs are at risk.

I think I've taken up enough room but you know what?
It's very easy to carry on, and on, and on, and on ...............
So much for

Arklight wrote: »

Europe isn't crumbling, it isn't divided, the cracks you Brexit people constantly predict aren't showing.

P.S.
I don't recall seeing anyone say the EU was crumbling.
It's not, yet at least.
But it's looking more and more like it will.

phillw

cogito wrote: »

Voting to leave the EU was nothing to do with financial gain or exploiting anyone. It's amazing that over 18 months on from the referendum that remainers still have no understanding of why people voted to leave.

No, I do have an understanding. No leaver has put forward a non abusive reason that actually stands up to logic. It's either getting rid of the working time directive, so employers can abuse their employees or people wanting to abuse their position by denying their arbitrarily obtained higher standard of living to other people who aren't so lucky.

Financial gain = 350m to the NHS & stopping immigrants coming to take our jobs, claim our benefits.
Exploiting = Only taking the immigrants that we judge are worthy and then complaining that the EU will put a block on our exports.

There are plenty more examples. The bottom line is that leavers are just arrogant and belligerent and 18 months on they still have no self insight. This is something that they cannot accept, which is only going to become more of a problem for leavers as brexit is delivered.

It will especially become a huge drain on our NHS as mental health services get hit by a bunch of leavers suffering from cognitive dissonance.

Herzlos

tracey3596 wrote: »

The EU isn't divided?

From a negotiations point of view; absolutely. We cannot negotiate with Poland, or Spain independently, we can only talk to the EU. All attempts at circumventing that so far have been stonewalled.

So Poland is okay then, there's no furore from the EU about Polish forests or their judiciary?
No outcry with the Visegrad nations refusing to accept EU quotas for refugees?
No Spanish divisions with Catalonia?
There's not a growing divisions between the EU and Sweden or the EU and Denmark then?

There are problems in the EU, just as there are problems in the UK.
Those problems mean Brexit barely hits the top 5 concerns for most countries.

Politically there are no divisions, which is why Germany has a stable government now? Ooops!

Like ours?

I don't recall seeing anyone say the EU was crumbling.
It's not, yet at least.
But it's looking more and more like it will.

So in the same statement as you saying you don't think the EU is crumbling, you state you think the EU is crumbling?

"The EU is going to collapse anyway, so we need to get out now" is one of the staple claims of Brexiteers. Right beside "The EU is turning in a single superstate, so we need to get out now", somehow. I've seen the same poster on another forum make both of those statements (and defend them) with no awareness of the irony. But even he's admitted that he just wants out of the EU at any cost.

phillw

Herzlos wrote: »

But even he's admitted that he just wants out of the EU at any cost.

At any cost to everyone except him no doubt. That is the Leaver mantra.

Herzlos

phillw wrote: »

At any cost to everyone except him no doubt. That is the Leaver mantra.

He thinks he can't be any worse off, so doesn't think the damage will hurt him.

Rinoa

Herzlos wrote: »

From a negotiations point of view; absolutely. We cannot negotiate with Poland, or Spain independently, we can only talk to the EU. All attempts at circumventing that so far have been stonewalled.

We haven't got to the interesting bits yet.

ukcarper

Arklight wrote: »

The majority of Leave voters are older people who dislike immigration and are unlikely to be educated beyond school level.


What is it we're supposed to "understand" about their motivation?

You really need to have a good look at yourself and how you evaluate the qualities that help people make decisions.

vivatifosi

tracey3596 wrote: »

There's not a growing divisions between the EU and Sweden or the EU and Denmark then?

IMO if any countries were to leave, those are the two countries more likely to leave next, rather than Poland. Sweden in particular has traditionally acted similarly to the UK within the EU.

I don't think they would go full Swexit or Dexit though, more a shift to EFTA along with Norway. They don't have the eurozone issues as other countries such as the Netherlands.

It's down to the whole two speed Europe thing... those countries would find themselves on the periphery. I've also said before that of they did leave, a stronger, larger EFTA with the UK would be significantly more powerful than now, just by strength of numbers. It would have to have more power.

phillw

Rinoa wrote: »

We haven't got to the interesting bits yet.

It doesn't matter, there are no interesting bits that we have to offer any country that would make them willing to drop out of the EU. It's a wet dream of leave voters we can lead a revolution that decimates the fortunes of Europe, but it's unlikely to happen.

ukcarper wrote: »

You really need to have a good look at yourself and how you evaluate the qualities that help people make decisions.

Leave voters are much more in need of that. Especially the people who voted over the 350m to the NHS on a big red bus. They sold out their future for a lie on a bus and still they think they made the right choice.